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by Senor Barborito 02/25/2003, 7:41am PST |
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Ray, of Light wrote:
Monty Cantsin wrote:
Hitting the ball hard isn't the point of tennis, it's the point at which tennis begins. If you're playing someone who can hit hard then being able to hit hard is the entry fee you have to muster before the actual game, the deep game, the interesting high-level game even starts. In an RTS, clicking fast and knowing what beats what is the exact same thing.
At one end of that "entry fee" spectrum are the Corewars family and Everquest; at the other is, say, Quake. As the entry fee climbs, the deep game becomes more legend than reality. What you said holds, but Korean-level RTS matches are more Quake than Corewars, and I can see why someone would find that unsatisfying.
The genre's demands -- 'real-time', 'strategy' -- could be met with far less clicking than goes on today. I like the idea (which I conceived, just now) of Starcraft with scripting hooks, so that you're free to automate as much of the game as you like. You could download canned scripts ("StarScripts", I call them) and let your big brain compensate, or climb the (real-life, sort of) "tech tree" by writing fancy-ass, elite scripts.
If nothing else, it would silence a lot of crybabies.
Ray!
Not that it matters, but, yeah . . .
I was reguarly breaking the top 10 in 5,000 player tourneys in Quake at age 17. Made a good bit of pocket money playing 48 hour weekend tourney binges in my senior year of high school. I had terrible aiming and reflexes compared to most of the other people I was playing towards the top but I could scare the fuck out of my opponents 1 on 1 by listening to their patterns and sometimes missing certain items that were 'must-have' on the given pattern I was running. Misdirection + use of sound = appearing from someplace I wasn't supposed to be and surprise the opponent constantly. It broke up a lot of people's rhythm while playing against me and allowed me to compensate for merely decent 'skillz.'
There was a sort of strategy to Quake that you could play with quite a bit and really use to fuck with people's heads if you were careful. I'm nowhere near that good now so it's actually more fun.
Starcraft, on the other hand, went from an enjoyable RTS to a tug of war in slightly under a couple of months after I found it thanks to the min-maxers. Honestly broke my heart to watch it happen because I knew I was a fairly good player (not great, but I could hold my own) beforehand and I always approached it like chess.
That got wiped out quick.
--SB |
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Why I hate RTS and how to make the greatest one EVAR by Tom-Foolery Constructor 02/21/2003, 2:29pm PST 
Re: Why I hate RTS and how to make the greatest one EVAR by FABIO 02/21/2003, 7:23pm PST 
What's wrong with rock/paper/scissors? by FoK 02/23/2003, 9:37pm PST 
Re: What's wrong with rock/paper/scissors? by FABIO 02/23/2003, 11:01pm PST 
Re: What's wrong with rock/paper/scissors? by fok 02/23/2003, 11:11pm PST 
Did you even read the initial post? by Senor Barborito 02/23/2003, 11:10pm PST 
Yeah... by fok 02/24/2003, 12:57am PST 
you just rebuted yourself by FABIO 02/24/2003, 10:04am PST 
I think it was pretty obvious what I was saying, dumbass by Senor Barborito 02/24/2003, 10:17am PST 
Willful Misunderstanding by Mr. Palomar 02/24/2003, 12:39pm PST 
Re: I think it was pretty obvious what I was saying, dumbass by FABIO 02/24/2003, 2:24pm PST 
Re: I think it was pretty obvious what I was saying, dumbass by FABIO 02/24/2003, 2:26pm PST 
I did answer you, dumbass. Christ you're thick. by Senor Barborito 02/24/2003, 11:38pm PST 
Re: I did answer you, dumbass. Christ you're thick. by FABIO 02/25/2003, 10:56am PST 
Re: I did answer you, dumbass. Christ you're thick. by Senor Barborito 02/25/2003, 7:16pm PST 
Fixed quotes. And hopefully clarified for the final time here. by Senor Barborito 02/25/2003, 7:24pm PST 
JU-LIE! JU-LIE! JU-LIE! -nt- by Bill Dungsroman 02/26/2003, 5:21pm PST 
Re: JU-LIE! JU-LIE! JU-LIE! -nt- by FABIO 02/26/2003, 9:24pm PST 
Re: I think it was pretty obvious what I was saying, dumbass by Ice Cream Jonsey 02/24/2003, 3:25pm PST 
RE: I think it was pretty obvious what I was saying, dumbass by Alternate789 02/24/2003, 4:16pm PST 
Re: I think it was pretty obvious what I was saying, dumbass by curst 02/24/2003, 11:16pm PST 
Re: Did you even read the initial post? by Monty Cantsin 02/25/2003, 1:40am PST 
That was easily the stupidest thing you have ever written by Senor Barborito 02/25/2003, 2:16am PST 
Re: That was easily the stupidest thing you have ever written by Zseni 02/25/2003, 2:35am PST 
Koreans: fast index fingers? by Fussbett 02/25/2003, 4:17am PST 
No, fast min-max by Senor Barborito 02/25/2003, 7:22am PST 
Re: No, fast min-max by ValiumAddict 02/25/2003, 3:39pm PST 
Re: No, fast min-max by TehFieryBalrog 07/05/2007, 9:36pm PDT 
Re: That was easily the stupidest thing you have ever written by Monty Cantsin 02/25/2003, 4:44pm PST 
Re: Did you even read the initial post? by Zseni 02/25/2003, 2:26am PST 
Re: Did you even read the initial post? by Monty Cantsin 02/25/2003, 4:20pm PST 
Re: Did you even read the initial post? by Zseni 02/25/2003, 5:28pm PST 
Queneau plays Black and White by Mr. Palomar 02/25/2003, 5:59pm PST 
Re: Did you even read the initial post? by Monty Cantsin 02/25/2003, 7:35pm PST 
Re: Did you even read the initial post? by TehFieryBalrog 07/05/2007, 9:40pm PDT 
If you're going to respond to 2003 you could get the title right. NT by Soul Calibur 07/05/2007, 9:42pm PDT 
Re: Did you even read the initial post? by Ray, of Light 02/25/2003, 3:39am PST 
I used to win money playing Quake regularly by Senor Barborito 02/25/2003, 7:41am PST 
"See, I'm really good a video games!" by Irritating kid 02/25/2003, 9:20am PST 
Re: "See, I'm really good a video games!" by FABIO 02/25/2003, 11:55am PST 
Hey, that's my line. by Fussbett 02/25/2003, 4:06pm PST 
Video Games, Chess, and Laziness. by mrs. johnson 02/25/2003, 4:40pm PST 
Yes, exactly. by Senor Barborito 02/25/2003, 7:29pm PST 
Re: Yes, exactly. by mark 02/25/2003, 8:36pm PST 
This argument is pretty much over by now, right? by Bodybag 02/25/2003, 9:08pm PST 
There isn't one strategy for chess that will always win NT by Senor Barborito 02/25/2003, 11:49pm PST 
that's guy's a fucking crackpot by FABIO 02/25/2003, 6:35pm PST 
I don't know about suspense games, but much of his strategy talk is dead on-nt- by mark 02/25/2003, 6:51pm PST 
it's all DePalma's fault by jeep 02/25/2003, 7:45pm PST 
Re: it's all DePalma's fault by FABIO 02/25/2003, 10:44pm PST 
Re: "See, I'm really good a video games!" by TehFieryBalrog 07/05/2007, 9:43pm PDT 
This guy is new and already knows SB was crazy and Zseni is bad at everything by Flavilio 07/06/2007, 12:10am PDT 
Battlenet screenname is Balrog200 or soapie on USEast, channel scu NT by TehFieryBalrog 07/07/2007, 12:32am PDT 
alternatively aim screenname is balrog36 NT by TehFieryBalrog 07/07/2007, 12:47am PDT 
^^^ This guy loves balrogs. NT by Any and all balrogs. 07/07/2007, 2:57am PDT 
Re: Did you even read the initial post? by Monty Cantsin 02/25/2003, 5:03pm PST 
You CAN turtle in RA2+YR by Bodybag 02/25/2003, 6:57pm PST 
Re: You CAN turtle in RA2+YR by jeep 02/25/2003, 7:51pm PST 
Re: You CAN turtle in RA2+YR by Bodybag 02/25/2003, 8:17pm PST 
Re: Did you even read the initial post? by Ray, of Light 02/25/2003, 8:00pm PST 
StarScripts are tomorrow's Blueprints by Fussbett 10/30/2006, 11:30pm PST 
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