Forum Overview :: Gamerasutra
 
Re: whoah! by Lizard_King 08/02/2003, 1:06pm PDT
FABIO wrote:


Do you expect Shakespere in your videogames? It wasn't anything great, but it still beat out every "save is from the orcs and the sinister mystery power behind them" D&D game that wasn't Planescape, and don't even get me started on Final Fantasy 7-9 (10, for any other faults it might have, was at least something vaguely original). For all the thee's and thou's, the voice acting was great for a videogame.

Really? I found the voice acting fucking obnoxious, made worse by the incredibly poor choice of subject matter (romantic bla bla bla). At most, I found VtM's trite garbage plot roughly equivalent to "save us from the orcs", which I don't think is a very high standard to hold it against. I suppose it depends on whether you measure the quality of games against the average for the total population or against the few you really like. Either way, it is not so much the plot per se that matters to me (find the water chip), but the execution of said plot. Which in VtM I find pitifully bad, free of any sort of fun value, and certainly of any curiousity on the player's part.

With all due respect, between this and that other post, I'm beginning to think that you've just started playing videogames within the past year or two. With this post, it sounds like you made the jump directly from Hugo award winning fiction and Beowolf directly into the plots of said games.

Huh? I've definitely played a lot more video games recently than I had since perhaps early high school, and I will freely admit to expecting (and usually being disappointed) some degree of storytelling skill in games, but I don't quite see your point here. My standards are too high because they don't accept the bare minimum as "good", then, except in games which you hate and I don't?


Compared to what? The brilliant NPC AI of Fallout 2? At least your party members were helpful on occaisions rather than liabilities. The only problem with party member AI in Masquerade was that despite setting your party members to "quit casting fucking spells during throw away fights", they'd continue to cast.

Me, it was the pathfinding and the complete worthlessness in clutch battles that got me. Not that it mattered, since the enemies were even more obviously scripted. Personally, I think if a game can't get NPC control right (like you mentioned in F2), they ought to just opt for full player control. In recent memory, I think the only game of the no-direct-control sort that hasn't totally frustrated me is .hack.


Well here's my thing; I couldn't give two shits about Whitewolf and their fruity RPG's. As it stands, Masquerade was a linear Diablo with prettier 3D graphics and a plot beyond seeing a pretty movie every 2 hours. Good enough for me to give it a 6.5-7 out of 10.

You're not expected to, my point was that they took a very rich and complex world and reduced it to the lowest, most linear common denominators of generic RPG's everywhere.


Except for the "bloodsuck" command? Or draining blood from your foes from a distance? Did you even play this game?

Which was roughly the equivalent of an "osmose" attack in every other game. Bloodsucking in VtM is supposed to involve hunting. The "convenience" of simply draining whatever monster comes across your path, a la Blood Omen II, hardly makes up for the fact that you've turned a gruesome and disturbing act (which for some reason appeals to many as sensual since Stoker sexed it up), which could very well be an interesting side aspect (developing a herd of mortals to feed on...hunting regularly instead...deciding on a routine or active engagement manner of dealing with it) in a less railroad linear game, and turned it into just another medikit.


Except for a screen that let you spend experience points in dozens of areas? It was sure beyond that shit "one point per level" crap of Diablo 2 (or even worse, Arcanum, but no one liked that anyways so it's a moot point), and at least in Maquerade you weren't fucked halfway through the game if you went with certain skills over others. Did you spend a lot of points on the necromancer's raise skeletons ability like everyone else because you thought having a legion of skeletons following you was cool? Tough luck, you lose.

Yes, but there was a very limited subset of disciplines and abilities that were in any way useful. Not a particular shortcoming of this game of course (as you mentioned Fallout, it had a similar problems with the usefulness of some of the skills) but in this game well over 3/4 of the abilities, which were obviously initially implemented with some plan in mind back when they had some of their budget left, were "use once, then return to save before you picked it".


Are you seriously comparing the plots for the two? I'll take a cliched, but still reasonably solid story over the mish mash of every X-files episode ever made with unforgivably horrendous "love blooming on the battlefield" and "I fucked my stepmom" shit thrown in any day. And compared to every console RPG ever made, the plot in masquerade was pure fucking gold. At least the last few hours didn't dissolve into directionless, convoluted crap like every single thing to come out of Japan ends up doing.

I suppose, if that's what it comes down to, that I would choose an attempt at creativity, no matter how despicable in its sum, over most retreads of this eternal love shit. On an aside, having just completed FFIX, after doing every miserable sidequest, I think the sum total of the plot is ultimately quite decent. FFX still stands above it, especially on a visual level, but 9 was a moderately interesting and occasionally surprising variation on "save the world". Plus (SPOILERRRRRR) Orco had kids at the end.


Well I'm sorry LARPing goth fags were let down by it, but that still doesn't change my opinion. Actually, the idea that this game pisses off pancake makeup covered Marilyn Manson(sp?) fans is a big plus in my book. 11 out of 10!

Good point. What's a "LARP"?


We're agreed on one thing at least, the Blood Omen sequels blow.


yay. I see your point re VTM, I guess it all depends on what expectations you come with when you start a game. For instance, I had zero expectations of MGS2 and no prior experience with the series before it, so I did not have the allergic reaction you did.
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Note to Homeworld 2 box artist by FABIO 07/25/2003, 3:10am PDT NEW
    Un-Holy Shit! NT by Senor Barborito 07/25/2003, 7:26am PDT NEW
    Re: Note to Homeworld 2 box artist by laudablepuss 07/25/2003, 1:39pm PDT NEW
    notice: not a single spaceship (or even recognizable space) anywhere on cover by FABIO 07/25/2003, 3:32pm PDT NEW
        That chick with the fiberoptic combover is so hot, though! NT by laudablepuss 07/25/2003, 6:17pm PDT NEW
        Re: notice: not a single spaceship (or even recognizable space) anywhere on cover by Ice Cream Jonsey 07/25/2003, 6:41pm PDT NEW
            I'll bet my next paycheck by FABIO 07/25/2003, 10:16pm PDT NEW
                Re: I'll bet my next paycheck by Bill Dungsroman 07/26/2003, 10:11am PDT NEW
                    Re: I'll bet my next paycheck by Random Psycho 07/26/2003, 8:30pm PDT NEW
                        (Ed Norton impression): You're just a voice in my head! NT by Senor Barborito 07/26/2003, 8:40pm PDT NEW
                            (Brad Pitt impression): You're a voice in mine! NT by Random Psycho 07/26/2003, 8:41pm PDT NEW
                You owe me a dollah. by foogla 07/26/2003, 12:21pm PDT NEW
                Re: I'll bet my next paycheck by curst 07/26/2003, 12:39pm PDT NEW
                Fucker by Lizard_King 07/28/2003, 7:16pm PDT NEW
                    wasnt that bad by FABIO 07/30/2003, 6:54pm PDT NEW
                        Re: wasnt that bad by Lizard_King 08/02/2003, 12:51am PDT NEW
                            whoah! by FABIO 08/02/2003, 3:55am PDT NEW
                                Re: whoah! by Lizard_King 08/02/2003, 1:06pm PDT NEW
                                Focusing like a LASER on one sentence for a long hate-filled rant by Damocles 08/02/2003, 2:07pm PDT NEW
                                    Mock me, for I suck at quoting. RETRY by Damocles 08/02/2003, 2:11pm PDT NEW
                                        Re: Mock me, for I suck at quoting. RETRY by Entropy Stew 08/02/2003, 7:31pm PDT NEW
                                        FF6 overrated? by FABIO 08/03/2003, 1:55am PDT NEW
                                            Did you find the following to be solutions? by Lizard_King 08/03/2003, 11:41am PDT NEW
                                                Re: Did you find the following to be solutions? by FABIO 08/03/2003, 4:24pm PDT NEW
                                                    Re: Did you find the following to be solutions? by Lizard_King 08/03/2003, 6:33pm PDT NEW
                                            Re: FF6 overrated? by Forensic 08/03/2003, 11:36pm PDT NEW
                                            Re: FF6 overrated? by Damocles 08/09/2003, 2:28am PDT NEW
                                                Re: FF6 overrated? by Lizard_King 08/09/2003, 2:42am PDT NEW
                                                Re: FF6 overrated? by FABIO 08/10/2003, 1:08am PDT NEW
                                                    God, I need to play this again by Entropy Stew 08/11/2003, 8:29am PDT NEW
                                        Re: Mock me, for I suck at quoting. RETRY by Lizard_King 08/03/2003, 11:45am PDT NEW
                                            a hearty "fuck no" for chrono cross by FABIO 08/03/2003, 4:46pm PDT NEW
                                                Huh. by Lizard_King 08/03/2003, 6:38pm PDT NEW
                                                    Every Suikoden has that, and Suikoden II was a masterpiece by Damocles 08/09/2003, 2:37am PDT NEW
                                                        Missed this by Lizard_King 08/09/2003, 2:46am PDT NEW
                                                            Suikoden II by FABIO 08/10/2003, 12:26am PDT NEW
                                                                Re: Suikoden II by Lizard_King 08/10/2003, 12:36am PDT NEW
                                                        Skies or Arcadia still Dreamcast only? Wanted to try that for years NT by FABIO 08/09/2003, 11:34pm PDT NEW
                                                            It's out for Gamecube by Lizard_King 08/09/2003, 11:56pm PDT NEW
                                                                no gamecube either :( NT by FABIO 08/10/2003, 12:26am PDT NEW
                                                                    Yeah, I figured. NT by Lizard_King 08/10/2003, 12:39am PDT NEW
                                            Re: Mock me, for I suck at quoting. RETRY by Damocles 08/09/2003, 2:34am PDT NEW
                                                Re: Mock me, for I suck at quoting. RETRY by Lizard_King 08/09/2003, 2:51am PDT NEW
                                                    do not listen to these lies by FABIO 08/10/2003, 12:11am PDT NEW
                                                        The plot thickens by Lizard_King 08/10/2003, 12:31am PDT NEW
                                                            Re: The plot thickens by FABIO 08/10/2003, 1:23am PDT NEW
                                                                Re: The plot thickens by Lizard_King 08/10/2003, 2:06pm PDT NEW
            Re: notice: not a single spaceship (or even recognizable space) anywhere on cove by Damocles 07/27/2003, 4:40am PDT NEW
                Space Quest 5's mock Weekly World News issue would be #1 pick NT by FABIO 07/28/2003, 9:43am PDT NEW
    The Homeworld 2 Box Artist controversy is no more! by curst 07/29/2003, 4:29pm PDT NEW
        Re: The Homeworld 2 Box Artist controversy is no more! by Ice Cream Jonsey 07/29/2003, 5:00pm PDT NEW
            I mean, really, its still holds the game contents, doesn't it? NT by George Broussard 07/29/2003, 5:48pm PDT NEW
        yes it was me who made the difference NT by FABIO 07/29/2003, 10:30pm PDT NEW
        Not to burst the bubble by Unbitter 07/30/2003, 12:07pm PDT NEW
            I dont think it matters by FABIO 07/30/2003, 6:50pm PDT NEW
 
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