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by Jerry Whorebach 05/28/2014, 4:18pm PDT |
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My ideal save system is one that's had as much consideration and testing put into it as every other aspect of the design, which is hopefully not a little. In general, I tend to think checkpoints work best for linear games and save stations for non-linear ones, and the better the game is - the more dependent it is on strategy and skill as opposed to trial and error or blind luck - the more it benefits from spacing those saves farther apart. A game with too-frequent saves can pose just as much of a challenge to the player as any other, but it's going to have to rely on challenging his reflexes and his patience and not much else - that's not really my idea of fun.
But I try to be open minded when it comes to mechanics. About the only save mechanic I won't tolerate these days is unlimited save-anywhere, like an old fashioned word processor, which is pretty much the designers admitting they didn't even try to balance their game. If I happen to have a fun and challenging experience in their virtual world, it will either require designing one for myself or it will be a happy accident. I think they call that "emergent gameplay." (That being said, I don't see why any game which supports indefinite pausing - which should be all of them, all of the time, unless they have a very, very good reason not to - shouldn't also allow you to suspend your game, quit the application, and resume it whenever you're ready, since it's the same fucking thing.)
Shovel Knight sounds like they're putting some design into their save mechanic. I don't know how it's going to turn out, but I'm glad to hear they're making the effort!
Yacht Club wrote:
Our checkpoint system might not directly remind you of Dark Souls, but the iteration of its design started from a place of thinking about how we could place such an important emphasis on player death as Dark Souls did. In our game, you can recover your lost money when you die similar to Dark Souls, but imagine if when you returned to the campfire, if you had the option of putting out the fire for a giant heap of cash! That's basically the risk/reward system we have set up. Any time you reach a checkpoint, you will return to it if you die, but you also have the option to break it with your shovel and benefit from a ton of gold instead.
I haven't played BioShock Infinite yet. What was it about the checkpoint system that turned you off? I know the original suffered from save-anywhere syndrome, but it was somewhat mitigated by the fact that your enemies perpetually respawned while your health and ammo didn't - at least, they didn't if you were playing with the patch, which disabled vita chambers. Can you imagine how much better that game could've been if they'd used those chambers for conventional save stations instead of roach motels where fun goes to die?
Lurker 410942 wrote:
Is there a way to integrate the save system into the actual story/gameplay so that saving has consequences besides an A/B/C ranking?
I'm really not a fan of ranking or scoring systems in games that aren't built around them (e.g. Pong). If your core gameplay is strong enough, you shouldn't need to shovel a second level of gameplay on top of it, especially one that doesn't support (or worse, actively opposes) any story you might be trying to tell. Consider the difference between Burnout, Crazy Taxi, and any shmup with bullet scraping. Burnout rewards near misses with boost, which makes you go faster, which allows you to cross the finish line ahead of your opponents, thereby improving your ranking. Crazy Taxi rewards near misses with cash tips from your passengers, which is tallied up at the end of your session, and used to calculate your ranking. Most shmups reward near misses with points, which... are points; they don't really have anything to do with the story or the core gameplay, they're just for bragging rights. I think this is one of the reasons why Burnout is generally considered more accessible than Crazy Taxi, and both more so than any modern shmup. I still play and enjoy all of them, though, because I'm willing to engage a game on its own terms if I think it might be a fun experience :( |
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Ohhhhhhhhhh boy by Ice Cream Jonsey 01/28/2014, 9:40pm PST 
The whole game is embarrassing, the spiders in the well are probably the peak by jeep 01/28/2014, 10:20pm PST 
The whole game is embarrassing, the spiders in the well are probably the peak by John Gulp 01/29/2014, 6:32am PST 
Is enemy level autoscaling the worst design possible? by Entropy Stew 01/29/2014, 9:04am PST 
It felt like a lazy design choice by people who should know better. For unknown by RetroRomper 01/29/2014, 10:06am PST 
No scaling in the full version by Lurker 410942 04/20/2014, 8:44pm PDT 
Kinda wish there was some now by Lurker 410942 04/23/2014, 5:00am PDT 
I'll never understand why developers insist on ruining perfectly good... by Jerry Whorebach 04/23/2014, 2:16pm PDT 
I think this problem may speak to a perversion of the core concept. by Jerry Whorebach 04/23/2014, 6:38pm PDT 
What's your ideal save system then? by Lurker 410942 05/28/2014, 5:31am PDT 
This is like asking what my ideal health system is! by Jerry Whorebach 05/28/2014, 4:18pm PDT 
I feel like you have a wealth of information regarding successful RPGs by Ice Cream Jonsey 04/24/2014, 7:39am PDT 
Fuck it, some questions for Jerry. by Ice Cream Jonsey 04/24/2014, 3:58pm PDT 
I don't think you should be taking RPG advice from a guy who doesn't play them. by Jerry Whorebach 04/24/2014, 9:06pm PDT 
Re: I don't think you should be taking RPG advice by jeep 04/24/2014, 11:32pm PDT 
I should've brought up Capcom vs. SNK instead of Marvel vs. Capcom 2 by Jerry Whorebach 05/27/2014, 4:41pm PDT 
Re: Fuck it, some questions for Jerry. by Mischief Maker 04/25/2014, 2:09pm PDT 
I'll understand if you don't want to argue RPGs with a shutin, but I have to try by Jerry Whorebach 04/25/2014, 4:46pm PDT 
Characters are just classes with personalities. Think of Team Fortress 2. NT by Jerry Whorebach 04/25/2014, 4:55pm PDT 
These replies have all been great. Still processing it all. Thanks, everyone. NT by Ice Cream Jonsey 04/25/2014, 5:47pm PDT 
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