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Re: Mischief Maker would hate it by Lizard_King 03/22/2010, 9:18pm PDT
FABIO wrote:


This is like saying that it's the player's fault for Final Fantasy 8 sucking because they should have realized early on that the card game was the way to go instead of the infinitely more obvious routes. A game's challenge should not come from a lack of immediate information available to the player, or some sort of Magic Eye painting of long-term planning. There is no strategy to boss fights other than trial and error with 20 more minutes of slogging between attempts if your blind guess at his attack type was incorrect.

When an analogy is the entirety of your counterargument, you need a better option. In this case, it's not some minigame or whatever, it's the 1/3 of the game. Balancing your Personas in a game called "Persona". Who'd have thought that? You have three people with you in most fights, all with a different element and potentially different type of attack, in addition to whatever you can bring to bear. That's quite a few windows for experimentation, and requires a comprehensive defense strategy while you feel out the enemy. And, again, I can't emphasize just experimenting with the breeding a bit after you've gotten an advance in an S-link and before you've gotten to a boss. Of course, you could opt to randomly hit buttons while cursing your god for having put you in this terrible bind, but I guess that turns most games into trial and error.


No, the star athlete. The other food-obsessed character.

Well, that makes more sense. But again, power is a deceptive metric. You don't need the ultimate personas of any form for the core game iirc, and you don't need to really breed them intensively to the point where maxing out character lines is all that important unless you are interested in beating the alternate boss (in which case your pick for ultimate persona is nearly the heart of a winning strategy). All of which is made very easy by the unlocking of the Monad dungeon, which allows you to do all of your leveling and hunting in high risk/high reward environments once standard dungeons become trivial.

But you're right, they totally should have included a mode that allows you to unlock all of the extreme ends of character development in the game without any effort. Or maybe those are targeted at people who can differentiate between an actual thankless grind as par for the course in the standard experience (MMORPGs, anything Bethesda short of maybe Fallout 3, etc) and a pretty reasonable challenge attached to bonus elements in the game for completists.
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Review Request: Shin Megami Tensai series in general by Mischief Maker 03/20/2010, 11:42am PDT NEW
    Hated Devil Survivor, I mean. NT by Mischief Maker 03/20/2010, 11:43am PDT NEW
    Spoony sort of reviewed them in some vlog entries. O_O NT by Jhoh Creexul (custom software) 03/20/2010, 12:04pm PDT NEW
    Ask Wromg NT by Fortinbras 03/20/2010, 12:05pm PDT NEW
    this review covers everything atlas has ever released by irony 03/20/2010, 12:07pm PDT NEW
    It was just a review in the forum by Worm 03/20/2010, 12:57pm PDT NEW
        Re: It was just a review in the forum by Fortinbras 03/20/2010, 10:50pm PDT NEW
    You will hate them by FABIO 03/20/2010, 3:33pm PDT NEW
        Re: You will hate them by Ice Cream Jonsey 03/20/2010, 3:43pm PDT NEW
            You haven't gotten to the soul-crushing grinding yet by FABIO 03/20/2010, 3:56pm PDT NEW
                I didn't even know people could be bad at RPGs ... stunning. NT by Worm 03/20/2010, 4:03pm PDT NEW
                    Well, what is your reaction to that?You're saying you didn't see the same thing? NT by Ice Cream Jonsey 03/20/2010, 4:40pm PDT NEW
                        I didn't, that's for sure by Lizard_King 03/20/2010, 9:10pm PDT NEW
                            Mischief Maker would hate it by FABIO 03/21/2010, 12:56am PDT NEW
                                Re: Mischief Maker would hate it by Lizard_King 03/21/2010, 8:12am PDT NEW
                                    Re: Mischief Maker would hate it by FABIO 03/21/2010, 8:28pm PDT NEW
                                        Re: Mischief Maker would hate it by Lizard_King 03/22/2010, 9:18pm PDT NEW
                                            Re: Mischief Maker would hate it by FABIO 03/23/2010, 8:18am PDT NEW
                                Re: Mischief Maker would hate it by Mischief Maker 03/23/2010, 12:33pm PDT NEW
                    thanks jsoh NT by FABIO 03/20/2010, 5:29pm PDT NEW
                        What? The bosses are pretty easy. by Worm 03/21/2010, 5:07am PDT NEW
                            Re: What? The bosses are pretty easy. by FABIO 03/21/2010, 8:40pm PDT NEW
                            re: plot by FABIO 03/21/2010, 8:56pm PDT NEW
                                That isn't what I said anyway. :( NT by laudablepuss 03/22/2010, 11:34am PDT NEW
                                Oh man two replies, how can I fucking contain myself? by Worm 03/22/2010, 2:00pm PDT NEW
                                    John was right. You do eat up shit =( NT by FABIO 03/23/2010, 8:20am PDT NEW
                                        Well it was no Bloodlines ~_~ NT by Worm 03/23/2010, 8:24am PDT NEW
                Re: You haven't gotten to the soul-crushing grinding yet by Ice Cream Jonsey 03/20/2010, 4:38pm PDT NEW
        As to why it's hugely popular... by FABIO 03/20/2010, 3:45pm PDT NEW
    Oh bitch you did not just by Nomura Dau Don 03/20/2010, 4:48pm PDT NEW
        Re: Oh bitch you did not just by Ice Cream Jonsey 03/20/2010, 5:03pm PDT NEW
            Re: Oh bitch you did not just by Nomura Dau Don 03/20/2010, 6:13pm PDT NEW
                In FF6 you learned magic from equipped Espers NT by Nou Doof Dong Ching Chong Wing Wong 03/20/2010, 7:16pm PDT NEW
                I played most of FF12 on autopilot gambits. by Jhoh Creexul (custom software) 03/21/2010, 12:08am PDT NEW
                FF2j and FF5 had job systems. by Worm 03/21/2010, 5:11am PDT NEW
    it counts as a review, and a comic strip about fursona 4 by irony 03/21/2010, 7:33pm PDT NEW
        ha ha, yup by FABIO 03/21/2010, 8:04pm PDT NEW
            DIDDLING YOUR SOUL CLIT by Entropy Stew 03/21/2010, 11:59pm PDT NEW
            It's certainly no Bloodlines, you got that right. NT by Charles Edwards 03/22/2010, 3:07pm PDT NEW
                Now I know how the Cables feel. Shattering sanities with one sentence. NT by FABIO 03/22/2010, 8:16pm PDT NEW
                    or getting trolled by an ICJ ator ... same difference, right? NT by Worm 03/22/2010, 8:44pm PDT NEW
        Re: it counts as a review, and a comic strip about fursona 4 by Ice Cream Jonsey 03/21/2010, 11:37pm PDT NEW
            it's already a worse game than gtavc NT by irony 03/22/2010, 4:28am PDT NEW
                Yes, but does it destroy lives like GTAVC? by Jerry Whorebach 03/22/2010, 6:35am PDT NEW
                    thanks for your insight fatso NT by nobody 03/22/2010, 10:30am PDT NEW
                        When nobody calls you a fatso, that means your diet is working 8) NT by Jerry Whorebach 03/22/2010, 11:03am PDT NEW
                            If you ain't fat and we're skinnier than you then we are also skinny. :3 by Jhoh Creexul (custom software) 03/22/2010, 2:32pm PDT NEW
                How? Does falling in water in P4 kill you and delete your save game? NT by Ice Cream Jonsey 03/22/2010, 9:01am PDT NEW
                    p4 doesn't even have water because weeaboos suck at video games NT by irony 03/22/2010, 5:16pm PDT NEW
                        In other words, yes. 8) NT by Jhoh Creexul (custom software) 03/22/2010, 5:24pm PDT NEW
                            it wasn't a yes or no question but that's because we have vision the rest of the NT by irony 03/22/2010, 5:27pm PDT NEW
                                Well the second part was yes or no, but it also answers the other question. O_O NT by Jhoh Creexul (custom software) 03/22/2010, 5:59pm PDT NEW
                                    Well the second part was yes or no, but it also answers the other question. O_O by Ice Cream Jonsey 03/23/2010, 10:36am PDT NEW
        Yeah, but that guy loved the game :( NT by Worm 03/22/2010, 2:02pm PDT NEW
 
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