Mischief Maker wrote:

I believe I've had this conversation many times before.

It's stupid to base video games off AD&D rules because AD&D is (or at least was back in my day) the most convoluted and ridiculous rules system around in PnP. THAC0 and Saving throws and hit points are all crazy, abstract, and make battles look silly when translated into onscreen action (how many times can lvl 9 Bert the Fighter get stabbed in the crotch until he doubles over?) Since the computer does all the calculations in the blink of an eye, you can at least incorporate the rules from some insanely complex system like Bureau 13's rules and get some realism (yes yes, while bonking minotaurs on the head with your enchanted fairly mace) out of the crunching. This slavishly holding to the rules for an outdated RPG rules system just because IT WAS THE FIRST is embarassing even for trenchcoat wearing ponytailed geeks with fake fangs.

In more general terms, remember how in the first final fantasy (hah!) game you "memorized" spells based on your level and the level of the spell just like in D&D? Remember how from the next game on they used spell points? Why? Because the D&D method SUCKED and spell points are SIMPLER, MORE BELIEVABLE, and LESS GAY. Fucking squaresoft's made 10 ff games, countless spinoffs, and a feature length movie, but hasn't been able to come up with a new plot any different from the first game (The earth is dying! Gather the items of power! Every team member gains an upgrade before the final battle) and yet they're kicking our ass in video game RPG common sense!

FABIO wrote:

Fuck D&D. Games should strike a balance between realism and ease of play/comprehension. Out of the half a dozen PnP I've played, Trade West's Star Wars RPG had the simplest rules and while it didnt allow for huge levels of customization or realism, it was very streamlined and let the game flow at a fast pace and never get bogged down as someone flipped through the rulebooks to find the Psyker handbook so they could look up stat table III.A.13. The H.E.R.O system (which the superhero system Champions was based one) was detailed and realistic out the wahzoo, defining details right down to how far back each hit knocked you and wether or not you'd smash through the wall behind you. And unless I missed the super deluxe detailed version of AD&D, there were a lot more tactical options during H.E.R.O than just choosing which spell to cast or saying "I whack this orc with my hammer". A lot of rules to memorize, yet detailed and realistic (somehow though it was still easier to keep track of than AD&D, probably due to every power and ability being based off the same basic mathmatical formula, and the fact that it only ONE GOD DAMN TYPE OF DICE).

AD&D benefits from neither simplicity or realism, liked MM just pointed out. Freedom Force is a great example of an action/strategy/RPG based off a great PnP system. Almost everything that's used D&D for the past few years has been pretty much an overly complex version of Diablo.