Forum Overview :: Dragon Age: Origins
 
Much better! I'm learning things from you already. by Jerry Whorebach 01/03/2011, 7:52pm PST
By the time I read my first Player's Handbook (2nd Edition), Thieves were already capable of using - nay, were mechanically inclined towards - the bow, and supposedly occupied the full spectrum of non-lawful alignments (the text suggested this was in keeping with the less-objectionable rogues of fantasy literature, such as Bilbo Baggins and the Mouser himself). Meanwhile, the Ranger was already a sort of combat-thief, with Robin Hood being used as the prime example (perhaps out of fear of another lawsuit from Tolkien's estate?). Today, of course, both the Thief and Ranger belong to the uber-class of Striker, 4th Edition's term for a character whose primary role is dealing direct damage to the enemy. The influence of CRPGs on 4th is clear, but I wonder if even back in the '80s CRPGs weren't already busy warping successful pen-and-paper games to their own perverted ends?

The whole thief as ranger-lite thing is basically a way around the inherent shortcomings of CRPGs. Unless your whole game is about stealth, it's hard to make a general case for using thieves' abilities. This doesn't matter when you have a human being who can adjudicate on the fly, but it basically makes a thief a glorified key ring that you have to protect in combat when your DM is a computer.

This guy gets it! This is precisely the school of CRPG design I was railing about in my original post. I would consider the D&D Cleric an example of good class design: a synergistic combination of flavour and crunch that arose organically from the needs of actual play. Contrast this with the way classes are designed in most CRPGs - generally by starting with a big list of them lifted directly from some pre-existing product, then going about the pointless (and ultimately destructive) task of trying to differentiate them mechanically within the confines of the standard CRPG framework, while at the same time integrating them into a (perhaps by necessity, fairly generic) fantasy world. Is it any wonder the CRPG has come to represent such a creative black hole?
PREVIOUS NEXT REPLY QUOTE
 
Dragon Age: Awakening - Positive! by Fortinbras 11/17/2010, 12:04pm PST NEW
    Re: Dragon Age: Awakening - Positive! by Ice Cream Jonsey 11/18/2010, 7:36am PST NEW
        The tactical combat is. . . pretty fun. by motherfuckerfoodeater 11/18/2010, 9:16am PST NEW
            Re: The tactical combat is. . . pretty fun. by Kenji Carter 11/18/2010, 12:27pm PST NEW
                The cleric has been dying since the day he was born. by Jerry Whorebach 11/18/2010, 3:54pm PST NEW
                    I still dug the AD&D1,2 cleric, which felt kind of like a KOTOR jedi consular by Fullofkittens 11/18/2010, 5:03pm PST NEW
                    Jerry doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about. 3.5 Clerics were awesome. by Fortinbras 11/18/2010, 5:18pm PST NEW
                        Jack of all trades, master of... all? That doesn't sound right. by Jerry Whorebach 11/18/2010, 5:45pm PST NEW
                        Amazingly, Fortinbras can write a post that is technically correct (we assume) NT by and Jerry's error post is still btr 11/18/2010, 7:07pm PST NEW
                        Re: Jerry doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about. by N 11/19/2010, 6:32pm PST NEW
                    Your sense of D&D archetypes is for shit. by motherfuckerfoodeater 11/20/2010, 9:51am PST NEW
                        Jerry does rule. 8) NT by Ice Cream Jonsey 11/20/2010, 12:07pm PST NEW
                    Holy Shit Jerry by Ice Cream Jonsey 11/20/2010, 12:07pm PST NEW
                        good job, jerry! NT by up with pod people 12/03/2010, 11:48am PST NEW
                            Yeah, when is this coming about again NT by Souffle of Pain 01/07/2011, 6:53pm PST NEW
                                ICJ covered his ass by not specifying a year. NT by laudablepuss 01/07/2011, 7:06pm PST NEW
                    Secret Origins of... The Cleric by Jerry Whorebach 01/02/2011, 10:34pm PST NEW
                        You were also wrong about the archetype for thieves. by motherfuckerfoodeater 01/02/2011, 11:20pm PST NEW
                            Where did I claim that the thief of D&D was patterned after Robin Hood? by Jerry Whorebach 01/02/2011, 11:58pm PST NEW
                                Look here, young fellow by motherfuckerfoodeater 01/03/2011, 2:25pm PST NEW
                                    Much better! I'm learning things from you already. by Jerry Whorebach 01/03/2011, 7:52pm PST NEW
                                        Re: Much better! I'm learning things from you already. by Shredder 01/03/2011, 9:24pm PST NEW
                                            Re: Much better! I'm learning things from you already. by motherfuckerfoodeater 01/04/2011, 11:26am PST NEW
 
powered by pointy