Bill Dungsroman wrote:

No. People around here like to make fun of me, just like I like to make fun of them. I seriously doubt anyone hates me. If they do, they're retarded, and I don't care either way. And nobody could possibly hate me like they hate you. Don't lump me in with you, ever.

Bill Dungsroman wrote:

Because I feel responsible in part for all of this. I should have talked you out of being in control even earlier than I did. I shouldn't have cheesed on forcing the issue when I finally tried the first time, instead of backing off. You're a dumb crazy kid, and I should have known better from the get-go, from what reading your stuff on OMM clearly pointed at. Next to asking a certain red-headed girl to marry me, letting you take control of caltrops from the start was the dumbest decision I ever made.

Bill Dungsroman wrote:

Senor Barborito wrote:

I've had a lot of success in general in working to fix the rabid paranoia bit lately, although it comes far too late for Caltrops' sake, but it still seems that every word that tumbles out of my mouth immediately gets under everybody's skin. You seem intent on deconstructing me here, so maybe you can tell me why that is.

Well, first of all, it's the aim and practice of everyone here to get under everyone else's skin. Like, DUH, where have you been? There does not exist a way that you could come here and post and not get blown all over the site, no matter what you wrote. Not from what you've done, not to the people that hang out here. Which is why a lot of people's Point #1 is that you shouldn't have bothered posting, just done what you wanted to do. Because, look what you did with it, all that shit about editing yourself out of the data (when your posts and replies to your posts are at least 70% of the post count), some garbage about implied copyrights with your Metafilter posts, post upon post defending yourself while insisting you're just here to take your lumps and apologize. HOLD ONTO THAT, pal, because further down you insult me and call me a liar. You. Calling me. A liar. I'm sorry you wish the site was still pink, but if it's any help, it's all fucking red to me right now.

Bill Dungsroman wrote:

Senor Barborito wrote:

You're wrong here - I know how people on the Internet behave, even if I don't know how to talk to them properly. I knew what the reaction to my deleting Caltrops would be, and what people would be talking about when I lied about veronica. I did it anyway because I valued the few friendships I still had at Caltrops. Almost all of those people have since said things that indicate they didn't think as much of those friendships as I was lead to believe. I also am fully aware of the what the longterm results of this thread will be in terms of grief, harrassment, bullshit, and being stalked - but I felt that it was the right thing to do regardless, and I did it, and will continue to participate until I've had a chance to sit down and talk with ICJ, at the very least.

Yeah, you're a real pip to talk to at length on AIM. And don't ever tell me I'm wrong. Ever. I've had all I ever want of that. If you're telling me that you knew that, by nerfing caltrops to staunch the flow of veronica fucking umberto posts, you'd propogate an unending stream of such posts, and that's what you wanted, then you're just restating the fact that you're crazy. Because that, Barbie, is fucking crazy talk.

Bill Dungsroman wrote:

Senor Barborito wrote:

You want to get your shots in. I understand. I'm sitting here letting you do so rather than passing off the data in the middle of the night through backchannels. This isn't out of some personal attempt to be fucking noble or anything of that sort, but simply a byproduct of the realization that heretofore I have been fucking up, and that I need to stop fucking up, accept what's coming to me in the court of public opinion/tongue-lashing and then move the fuck on.

This is what you call "sitting here letting?"

Bill Dungsroman wrote:

Whatever, man. That Option B you keep maligning so heavily, it's not for nothing that everyone here has propositioned it. It's not cowardice, it's how something actually gets done. You're standing there telling me how you're just here to Do The Right Thing and Take Your Lumps Like a Man but A) you're carrying on protracted senseless arguments like always and B) you haven't, as of this writing, done a motherfucking thing except bring this site to a screeching fucking halt again. I think it's great that you're planning to give ICJ the data but as of right now, all you've done is announce that aim. ICJ has no data. I'm sure you have an excuse for that, to which I'll only say, if you wanted to do this grand thing, why didn't you do it first at least? You want me to believe you're going to? Without editing it? I have a track record for you now, Skeezix, and all signs point to not believing a fucking word out of your mouth. You're whining to me awhile ago about never having done anything, right in the midst of not doing something again, yet trying to work off credit for it. I'll give you your due when I'm reading posts signed by Toutsuite.

Bill Dungsroman wrote:

Senor Barborito wrote:

If you want me to whip out the AIM logs for this conversation, I will, but put bluntly: you're lying your ass off here, or you remember it so badly it's actually hilarious. What happened is that I was incredibly angry (as usual) about some stupid shit I can't even remember on Caltrops, and in a moment of desperation I decided to talk to someone with a cooler head before I did something stupid. "Bill, please convince me not to delete Caltrops" was more or less what I said. You didn't have to capitulate or crawl like a worm or any such bullshit. I needed a shoulder to cry on, you provided one, and then I explained about my whole GA paranoia complex.

Yeah, it's fucking hilarious, SB. Oh, my sides. And, as usual, you aren't getting it. Why don't you think for a second about what I did to convince you not to delete caltrops. I said you were fine, you were doing fine as an admin, I was wrong, I overreacted. I also said that you should give serious thought to seperating yourself from admin duties, since and especially because you're such a big target and have all this personal info and people with grudges looking to hurt you, and caltrops in the process. Perhaps you did not expressly make me, but you left me few choices in light of your threats. Threats you made plenty good on later, I might add. You told me, like you told ES, to apologize to Stepto and disavow GA from any wrongdoing. Which I did, and if you actually make good on your promise, we might all get to read it.

Bill Dungsroman wrote:

Senor Barborito wrote:

At this point, it's not only inconsequential as you say, but posting it 100 or 1,000 times more isn't going to do any further damage. Why worry about that? I'm not sure what reason I have to be concerned that people will continue talking about it. The thing is, I don't see any significant difference in terms of damage done between Kabuke Seme mentioning it and everyone constantly talking about it - either way, the genie is out of the motherfucking bottle forever. People on the Internet are talking about my wife having once had sex with some other guy I always rather liked? This is not as bad, by my thinking, as losing all of my Caltrops friends was. I lost them anyway, though, so the least I can do is try to do the right thing.

I'm uh, still waiting for you to do it, incidentally. Do you see how dumb this conversation is, in light of the fact that you've never really done anything, lied about the one big thing you did do, and are now taking credit for something you haven't yet done?

Bill Dungsroman wrote:

Senor Barborito wrote:

There was one single stipulation, which I quickly thought better of, and me pointing out a rather nasty hole, which - reading some the other posts that have cropped up while I write this, ICJ has made clear he doesn't think is a problem. That's his business, I've pointed it out and can't reasonably be expected to do more than that. Calling my offer heavily laden with riders, provisions, and terms is simply bullshit.

If and when you give us the data, I'm going to conduct an experiment and determine how fragmented and garbled it would be if you'd had your odd little way and had every mention of you deleted from it.

Bill Dungsroman wrote:

That's just Provision One. Two has you making us delete posts for your convenience. Nobody here wants to do work for you, SB. You can insist it's for the better of the site and such, but I've spoken to ICJ about it, and even a fucking backwards dumbass like me who don't know nothin' 'bout no WhoIs and somesuch finds it just fine and infinitely preferable to you getting your weird little paranoid way one last time. We don't dig on deleting posts here, maybe you haven't heard. There's a lot we don't care about, and we'd rather ask forgiveness than permission, your arguments notwithstanding. Back to your Track Record analogy: taking ProTips from you about how safe we need to be doesn't strike me as a great fuckin' idea anymore, either. I guess you forget all the experience ICJ has in running websites, far more than you do or ever will.

Bill Dungsroman wrote:

Senor Barborito wrote:

I'd like to ask you something here - have you EVER known me to be subtle? Ever? At all? Even a tiny bit? If I were making a threat, you would know it. It would sound something like, "Pull the Metafilter posts or I pull your fucking site." It wouldn't sound like "Hey, guys, have you ever considered that this type of behavior could someday land you in legal trouble with someone who is significantly more of an asshole than myself?" Take everything you know about how my twisted little psyche works and consider the likelihood of me saying something subtle in this situation. Let me know what the resulting probability you get is, because over here it looks like a big fat fucking zero.

SenorB The Sorry, ladies and germs. You may not be subtle, but you are about getting your way.

Bill Dungsroman wrote:

You took a similar Utopian It's-for-the-good-of-the-site-it-has-nothing-to-do-with-me-personally stance regarding logins, when all you wanted to do really was stymie Zseni. And, why now? Here? In your Letter of Formal Apology for your past mistakes? Did you forget ICJ's email?

Bill Dungsroman wrote:

Senor Barborito wrote:

It's alright. You have every reason to be angry, and I deserve it.

--SB

Then start acting like it. As of this moment, I'm thinking you want access to this site under the auspices of giving us some old data and helping with our security in order to fuck us again. That's your motherfucking track record to date, my friend.