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by Lizard_King 12/13/2007, 12:39pm PST |
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Civis romanus sum wrote:
If you'd seen Robocop before seeing Starship Troopers, then I don't see how it's physically possible to end up missing the subtext of the latter. If you didn't really give the tiniest fuck about either film then fair enough
Things I knew when I saw Starship Troopers the first time, in pieces:
-It was based on a book that people seemed to name drop far too much
-It apparently had disappointed those people.
-It ran on TNT a lot.
Stored in a completely different part of my brain was the knowledge that Robocop was a movie with one of the best intros in history that had formed an otherwise indistinct impression in my young mind when I saw it way back when, and that Total Recall was fucking awesome. None of those were really linked by the word "Verhoeven" in any substantial way until I asked a friend what he was doing right now and he replied with "watching the special features on Starship Troopers". Now, granted, that guy watched the special features on every movie, but still, I had to know why a movie with such blah reviews merited the extra time. He explained, and then connected the dots for me. I watched it again, and finally paid attention to the details in those reviews that should have clued me in. "Lacks the courage of the book's fascist conclusions." WHAT? "The action sequences are heavily laden with special effects, but curiously joyless." "No humane insight" And so on.
, but if you actually see either as praiseworthy then I'm totally baffled as to how you managed it. And leaving aside Robocop's own merit, what did Starship Troopers add to the formula?
Does Robocop have merit or not? You seem unsure, but unwilling to discuss it. Robocop is a movie about the time in which it was made through its psychotic vision of the future. It is directly satirical at times, but its entire tone is much closer to that of Total Recall. Starship Troopers is about its own time as well, taking Heinlein's mid century attack on the legitimacy of being a civilian and subverting it to create a pure satire not only on a political level, but on the meta-level, taking on the concept of the blockbuster action film and disassembling it piece by piece. That he manages to do this while being actually funny and showing a few tits is the sort of touch that a lot of sci fi could use.
A lot of the devices and stylistic choices made in both movies are superficially similar, but the memorable scenes are that way for different reasons in each. The police state vs the society of total war. Similar, yet different, and both enjoyable in their own right.
To bring this all back around to the origin of the discussion: none of that has anything in common with Halo's boring, self conscious blender of cliches for the sake of appearing "deep". Using ST as a point of comparison for that (especially when expanding from there into being upset about the tactical merits of sci fi movies) is criminal. You can dislike ST all you want, but Halo's a whole different category of problematic. |
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It's awesome. NT by Grumah 12/02/2007, 7:23am PST 
I AGREE by Jhoh Clbbl O_____O 12/02/2007, 10:09pm PST
Mass Effect and me by Fussbett 12/02/2007, 10:35pm PST
If you liked the KOTOR games then yes. NT by Jhoh Clbbl O_____O 12/03/2007, 2:15am PST
The RPG aspects are mor like Deus Ex. Put points in, guns wobble less, hurt more NT by Fortinbras 12/03/2007, 3:49am PST
The sniper rifle starts out the most gimped. by Jhoh Clbbl O_____O 12/03/2007, 8:25pm PST
Also, there's a nice, somewhat useful bonus for 150+ kills with each weapon. by Lizard_King 12/03/2007, 8:50pm PST
Just so you know, doing the Moon sidequest nets you a class specialization by Fortinbras 12/03/2007, 10:31pm PST
You get the transmission for it around level 20. by Lizard_King 12/07/2007, 3:18pm PST
Was that the trigger? Huh. by Fortinbras 12/07/2007, 3:48pm PST
Also you can't land on Earth/Mars. What a fucking cocktease. NT by Fortinbras 12/07/2007, 6:54pm PST
Yeah, level 20 is the trigger for that one by Lizard_King 12/07/2007, 10:40pm PST
How far are you? by Lizard_King 12/02/2007, 10:54pm PST
I'm still only a couple hours into the game, Jso is further. NT by Jhoh Clbbl O_____O 12/03/2007, 2:15am PST
I just can't get into it. by bink 12/03/2007, 9:24am PST
I'm nowhere near done, but I think you're going to lose that bet. by Lizard_King 12/03/2007, 9:38am PST
Re: I'm nowhere near done, but I think you're going to lose that bet. by Ethan Steele 12/03/2007, 10:44am PST
Re: I'm nowhere near done, but I think you're going to lose that bet. by Lizard_King 12/03/2007, 8:47pm PST
Beat it a few days ago. I think you lost the bet. by Lizard_King 12/05/2007, 10:18pm PST
So far it is better than Kotor and Jade Empire NT by Grumah 12/03/2007, 8:24pm PST
This is probably going to turn out to be the best RPG of the entire decade. NT by Jhoh Clbbl O_____O 12/03/2007, 8:27pm PST
I love it. I'm looking forward to a second play-through already NT by Ethan Steele 12/08/2007, 4:14pm PST
I would like to reiterate what an embarrassment Halo's story is in comparison. by Jhoh Clbbl O_____O 12/08/2007, 5:04pm PST
Re: I would like to reiterate what an embarrassment Halo's story is in compariso by Jhoh Clbbl O_____O 12/08/2007, 5:05pm PST
You know who I really feel bad for is... by Fortinbras 12/09/2007, 2:29pm PST
Re: You know who I really feel bad for is... by Jhoh Clbbl O_____O 12/09/2007, 6:33pm PST
Re: You know who I really feel bad for is... by Lizard_King 12/09/2007, 8:46pm PST
replying to post above yours, but I fucked it up. NT by Lizard_King 12/09/2007, 8:46pm PST
"It's AFRAID!" is the hardest I've laughed at probably any line in sci-fi NT by Entropy Stew 12/09/2007, 9:09pm PST
My favorite is THEY SUCKED HIS BRAAIIIIIIIINS OUT o______________________o NT by Jhoh Clbbl O_____O 12/09/2007, 10:01pm PST
Agreed. by Fussbett 12/09/2007, 9:22pm PST
Try John Steakley's "Armor" if you want more bug-killing men in power armor but NT by less political stuff - Fortinbras 12/09/2007, 10:00pm PST
"Armor" was the 2nd worst sci-fi book I've ever read by E. L. Koba 12/10/2007, 11:51am PST
Re: "Armor" was the 2nd worst sci-fi book I've ever read by Fortinbras 12/10/2007, 3:54pm PST
Re: "Armor" was the 2nd worst sci-fi book I've ever read by laudablepuss 12/10/2007, 4:06pm PST
Hiro Protagonist? Come on, I can get fucked in the face for free by convicts by Fortinbras 12/10/2007, 4:46pm PST
Yes. REPOST. by Fussbett 12/10/2007, 4:47pm PST
Re: Yes. REPOST. by laudablepuss 12/10/2007, 5:04pm PST
I want to punch both of you by Entropy Stew 12/10/2007, 11:03pm PST
Re: "Armor" was the 2nd worst sci-fi book I've ever read by Last 12/11/2007, 7:36am PST
I wasn't comparing Bungie and Verhoeven's political allegories by Fortinbras 12/09/2007, 9:49pm PST
Re: I wasn't comparing Bungie and Verhoeven's political allegories by Lizard_King 12/09/2007, 10:46pm PST
I thought it was a pretty good book :( NT by Fortinbras 12/10/2007, 12:24am PST
He's apparently a pretty good writer NT by Grumah 12/10/2007, 7:06am PST
The way he portrays a world without women is... poetic. NT by Fussbett 12/10/2007, 10:27am PST
Well, there's your problem. by Lizard_King 12/10/2007, 11:43am PST
I think my problem is I don't share your taste in books :( NT by Fortinbras 12/10/2007, 2:52pm PST
That is a problem, but not the main problem. by Lizard_King 12/10/2007, 10:21pm PST
How could I forget the Bug Holocaust :( by Fortinbras 12/10/2007, 10:34pm PST
that should read "I don't dislike you" not "I dislike you"- NT by Fortinbras 12/10/2007, 10:36pm PST
So basically what I'm trying to say is: Why do you care whether I like it? NT by Fortinbras 12/10/2007, 10:37pm PST
You used the movie to illustrate your opinions on Halo by Lizard_King 12/10/2007, 10:56pm PST
Psh! Talk to the pipe! NT by Belbo Jacopo 12/10/2007, 11:03pm PST
Re: You used the movie to illustrate your opinions on Halo by Fortinbras 12/10/2007, 11:07pm PST
He just likes it! NT by Entropy Stew 12/10/2007, 11:10pm PST
This be dat G Fo shizee NT by Fortinbras 12/10/2007, 11:17pm PST
The book and the film are both terrible by Civis romanus sum 12/12/2007, 6:45am PST
Ah yes. by Lizard_King 12/12/2007, 8:51am PST
Re: Ah yes. by Civis romanus sum 12/13/2007, 9:32am PST
Fuck Robocop? No, I don't think so. by Lizard_King 12/13/2007, 11:02am PST
Re: Fuck Robocop? No, I don't think so. by Civis romanus sum 12/13/2007, 11:29am PST
fuck-giving and movie-watching by laudablepuss 12/13/2007, 12:08pm PST
Re: fuck-giving and movie-watching by Civis romanus sum 12/13/2007, 12:35pm PST
What if that person didn't even START medical school, let alone finish it? by Jerry Whorebach 12/13/2007, 1:38pm PST
This is almost as good as your crack about space marines. by Lizard_King 12/13/2007, 2:47pm PST
I haven't lived in a basement since last year, maybe you didn't get the memo? by Jerry Whorebach 12/13/2007, 5:12pm PST
Re: I haven't lived in a basement since last year, maybe you didn't get the memo by Entropy Stew 12/13/2007, 5:35pm PST
I did not get that memo, but that's very inspirational. by Lizard_King 12/13/2007, 8:16pm PST
That news deserves a 10. Post your Hot or Not link. NT by Quentin Beck 12/15/2007, 10:48am PST
Re: Fuck Robocop? No, I don't think so. by Lizard_King 12/13/2007, 12:39pm PST
Fuck Hollow Man :( NT by Jerry Whorebach 12/13/2007, 11:38am PST
Re: Ah yes. by mark 12/13/2007, 3:57pm PST
Re: Ah yes. by motherfuckerfoodeater 12/13/2007, 4:12pm PST
jesus, did Zseni write that article? NT by snore 12/14/2007, 10:02am PST
Deep subtle political allegory... Plus Tits! NT by Belbo Jacopo 12/10/2007, 9:54am PST
Re: You know who I really feel bad for is... by Vested Id 12/10/2007, 10:53am PST
That's actually the definition of hard sci fi. by Lizard_King 12/10/2007, 11:34am PST
Into my (insert highish made up number) hour and have only one real annoyance: by Motherhead 12/11/2007, 3:20am PST
Actually, I think the music is supposed to remind you that legends can be now by motherfuckerfoodeater 12/15/2007, 11:13am PST
Yahtzee hates it. by Mysterio 12/19/2007, 11:59am PST
WAIT WAIT IF I DON'T LIKE RPGS I WONT LIKE MASS EFFECT AND IF I DO I WILL? by Fortinbras 12/19/2007, 2:05pm PST
HE WAS SUPPOSED TO BE THE CHOSEN ONE! NT by Obi-Wan Kenobi 12/19/2007, 6:20pm PST
Person Has Opinion: film at 11 NT by The Happiness Engine 12/19/2007, 10:11pm PST
Re: Yahtzee hates it. by Jhoh Creebul, Witch Toucher O_O 12/19/2007, 10:54pm PST
No, bitching about having to read the manual to learn shit is retarded by Fortinbras 12/20/2007, 12:12am PST
I think the fact that they included a manual at all starts it at a 7 on the 7 to NT by 10 scale. Ice Cream Jonsey 12/20/2007, 12:49am PST
This game doesn't beam information directly INTO MY FUCKING BRAIN. 3 out of 5. NT by Fortinbras 12/20/2007, 12:51am PST
I would settle for beaming it directly into my EYES. NT by ([] - - - O_o 12/20/2007, 2:41am PST
thin shaft, lopsided testes. 3 out of 5 NT by Jerry Whorebach 12/20/2007, 2:45am PST
Not having the game walk you through it is an alien experience. NT by Jhoh Creebul, Witch Toucher O_O 12/20/2007, 5:00am PST
Re: Yahtzee hates it. by Caltrops 12/20/2007, 5:26am PST
Re: Yahtzee hates it. by motherfuckerfoodeater 12/20/2007, 8:27pm PST
I hope all you CUNTS die by bombMexico 03/24/2008, 2:10am PDT
only scrubs need advice NT by Grumah 03/24/2008, 4:29am PDT
DEAR GAMEFAQS I WOULD LIKE TO REGISTER MY DISTASTE FOR YOUR SERVICES NT by Fortinbras 03/24/2008, 6:49am PDT
I'm posting again to reiterate how much I enjoy having been responsible for your by Fortinbras 03/24/2008, 12:01pm PDT
You get some intimidate points for free for reaching different Renegade levels NT by Ethan Steele 03/24/2008, 8:36am PDT
Try a new character! by Lizard_King 03/24/2008, 2:27pm PDT
My character has a scar through his eyebrow just like i do by bombMexico 03/24/2008, 5:39pm PDT
stop me where I'm boring you with shit you already know by Lizard_King 03/24/2008, 6:15pm PDT
Status: Bored by bombMexico 03/24/2008, 10:17pm PDT
It's very rewarding to help you with being bad at video games by Lizard_King 03/24/2008, 10:52pm PDT
The more I hear about this game, the lamer it gets. Are we sure it's not from Ja by Jerry Whorebach 03/25/2008, 6:42am PDT
this is the best bioware game and probably the best rpg of 2007 NT by Grumah 03/25/2008, 7:12am PDT
I see what you're doing, you're damning it with faint praise. by Jerry Whorebach 03/25/2008, 7:15am PDT
you are also replying to people who beat the game about 3 times now NT by Grumah 03/25/2008, 11:50am PDT
It's a game that sounds worse when you break down into its parts by Lizard_King 03/25/2008, 9:23am PDT
FINISHED 2ND PLAYTHROUGH, FORGOT TO CHANGE DIFFICULTY TO HARD by bombMexico 08/16/2008, 7:00pm PDT
Re: FINISHED 2ND PLAYTHROUGH, FORGOT TO CHANGE DIFFICULTY TO HARD by Creexuls, a monster >:3 08/16/2008, 7:45pm PDT
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