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Re: Mythbuster by Zseni 10/24/2004, 2:26pm PDT
Fussbett wrote:

Zseni wrote:

dial-up connection

... So this story takes place in Australia?! Ray of Light's farm?


But only three people actually jump on the torrent. The uploader uploads....the first guy to get a full copy bolts. There are now .7 copies shared between the two dudes left. The uploader uploads. The next guy to get a full copy bolts. Etc.

I'm sure I don't have to point out the extremeness of this case, but EVEN HERE the first leecher helps get the .7 copies to the other two. Without the leecher, the DIAL-UP USER (We'll call him "Rolf") would never get .7 copies to the second two dudes in the same amount of time. Surely if the first leecher stuck around, the two other dudes would get the file even faster, but saying he's caused harm is 200% incorrect.

Without leecher #1, leechers #2 and #3 would still be sucking the sweet dial-up pipe alone, and wouldn't have .7 copies.

It's not all that extreme.

Also, the harm is in frustrating the original uploader. Yes, the hit and run dude heroically uploaded, but he also bolted and left the remaining uploading to the dude with dial-up. The dude with dial-up would like to check his goddamn email. He's pissed off. He stops seeding.

Question: is he an asshole? Those other two guys and everyone else who jumps on the torrent are all shit out of luck now.

I don't know why you're defending the fuck out of the concept of limitless leeching or, more specifically, hit-and-running, except out of understanding human nature more perfectly than I could ever hope to. But I think even us highly-evolved leechers with sound moral codes could do well to consider the frailties of lesser humans and indulge them from time to time. I'm re-seeding a torrent at Oink right now that all kinds of people (with positive ratios!!!!) hit and ran on. I don't have to reseed; I could just delete the torrent. If I were one of those two dudes downloading from me right now, I'd be happy that someone came along to seed instead of deleting the torrent.

Over at ThePPN there was a huge discography torrent from some j-rock band, it was 2.2 GB, the first two people to finish hit and ran on it and left her holding the bag, and she was pretty pissed, and I don't blame her. She didn't have dial-up, but those two guys were still assholes. I think uploading torrents and seeding them is doing people a favor, and that favor should be reciprocated with goodwill. I'm not saying that hit-n-running should be some kind of punishable offense, I'm just saying that 1. it does do harm and 2. it should be considered very impolite and inconsiderate. It's one thing to hit and run on a torrent with 15 seeds and 3 peers, but it's quite another to bail on the only uploader of a 2.2 GB torrent with 81 peers queued up. I can't believe we're even arguing this.

It segues nicely into a discussion about the difference between etiquette and law, and how law overrides etiquette and eventually dissolves the social fabric that sustains practices of etiquette. The Oinkery of banning bad sharers does nothing to promote polite leecher/seeder behavior, for example, or just check out your hulong/MMA front pages for another example.
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Wither BitTorrent? by Zseni 10/21/2004, 3:49am PDT NEW
    I agree. by Fussbett 10/21/2004, 8:13am PDT NEW
        Re: I agree. by Zseni 10/22/2004, 3:41am PDT NEW
            No. by Fussbett 10/23/2004, 2:33pm PDT NEW
                That is a totally awesome tracker. by Zseni 10/23/2004, 3:54pm PDT NEW
    also: DC++ by FABIO 10/21/2004, 11:04am PDT NEW
        Re: also: DC++ by Fullofkittens 10/21/2004, 12:58pm PDT NEW
    Re: Wither BitTorrent? by Ray of Light 10/21/2004, 2:27pm PDT NEW
        Yes, those bandwidth hogs are leeching my sweet ratios by sharing disproportiona by foolio 10/21/2004, 8:21pm PDT NEW
            You can practice on foolio first, if you like NT by Ray of Light 10/21/2004, 8:57pm PDT NEW
    eMule NT by old swede 10/21/2004, 2:31pm PDT NEW
    Re: Wither BitTorrent? by jeep 10/23/2004, 5:50pm PDT NEW
        Re: Wither BitTorrent? by Ice Cream Jonsey 10/23/2004, 6:04pm PDT NEW
            As a pointless aside, Hotline was probably the nadir of file sharing by Rafiki 10/23/2004, 7:15pm PDT NEW
            Welllllll leechers aren't always great. by Zseni 10/24/2004, 8:24am PDT NEW
                Mythbuster by Fussbett 10/24/2004, 12:42pm PDT NEW
                    Re: Mythbuster by Zseni 10/24/2004, 2:26pm PDT NEW
                        Re: Mythbuster by Fussbett 10/25/2004, 11:51pm PDT NEW
                            Maybe you should try creating and uploading a torrent some time by Zseni 10/26/2004, 3:32am PDT NEW
                                You've only just now come to the realization that Fussbett's a dickhead? NT by Whiny Little Bitch Uploader 10/26/2004, 7:55am PDT NEW
                                    Zing! NT by Creexul :( 10/26/2004, 3:38pm PDT NEW
                                I made a torrent once. by Fussbett 10/26/2004, 10:13am PDT NEW
                                    I HAVE ALSO MADE A TORRENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! by Creexul :( 10/26/2004, 3:47pm PDT NEW
                                        PS: the only exception to the rule. by Creexul :( 10/26/2004, 3:52pm PDT NEW
                                            PPS: his name was MichaelMooreFan and he was a pablum puking liberal. NT by Creexul :( 10/26/2004, 3:54pm PDT NEW
        Re: Wither BitTorrent? by Debaser 10/24/2004, 1:50am PDT NEW
            10/24: Lurker Community Finally Run Out of Real People to Poorly Impersonate by Debaser 10/24/2004, 1:58am PDT NEW
                Re: 10/24: Lurker Community Finally Run Out of Real People to Poorly Impersonate by Zseni 10/24/2004, 2:01am PDT NEW
                    Seems to suggest though, that many a mysterio, is spanky. NT by Hysterio 10/24/2004, 10:05am PDT NEW
                        nf NT by Mysterio 10/24/2004, 3:10pm PDT NEW
    Remember this thread? I'm baffled again. by Fussbett 03/23/2005, 9:41am PST NEW
        I was so angry, I made a mistake. by Fussbett 03/23/2005, 10:48am PST NEW
            what good torrent sites are there left? NT by Casual observer 03/23/2005, 11:03am PST NEW
                I, too, desire the answer to that question. NT by bink 03/23/2005, 12:03pm PST NEW
                    www.torrentspy.com by FABIO 03/23/2005, 12:54pm PST NEW
                    Re: I, too, desire the answer to that question. by William H. Hayt, Jr. 03/23/2005, 12:56pm PST NEW
                        Thanks to the both of you. NT by bink 03/23/2005, 6:46pm PST NEW
            Re: I was so angry, I made a mistake. by Zseni: Warrior-Poet 03/24/2005, 4:49am PST NEW
                More thoughts on BitTorrent by Fussbett 03/24/2005, 8:48am PST NEW
                    Re: More thoughts on BitTorrent by Zseni: Warrior-Poet 03/24/2005, 11:20am PST NEW
                        "Hey, can someone re-up the Ayumi Hamasaki? Thanks." by Fussbett 03/24/2005, 12:15pm PST NEW
                            There are about 90 seconds of worthwhile material in the Brown Bunny. by bink 03/24/2005, 9:16pm PST NEW
                                I was hoping bink would weigh in on this. by Fussbett 03/25/2005, 1:56am PST NEW
                                    Bad movies are bad. No matter how pretentious. NT by bink 03/25/2005, 11:34am PST NEW
                                        And I should just take your word for it. Instead of seeing it. For free. NT by Fussbett 03/25/2005, 12:46pm PST NEW
                                        Jesus fuck I'm outta here NT by binkbot 03/25/2005, 1:11pm PST NEW
                                        A similar trend exists for posters on caltrops. by Bill Dungsroman 03/25/2005, 2:44pm PST NEW
        In other news... by Chairman Mao 03/23/2005, 12:59pm PST NEW
            Re: In other news... by Ray of Light 03/23/2005, 1:06pm PST NEW
                Re: In other news... by Worm 03/23/2005, 1:34pm PST NEW
                    Re: In other news... by Mysterio Old School 03/23/2005, 1:50pm PST NEW
                        Re: In other news... by Worm 03/23/2005, 6:09pm PST NEW
                            In Short: He's a coward. To elaborate: He's a fucking coward. NT by bink 03/23/2005, 7:01pm PST NEW
                            Re: In other news... by Mysterio Explainer Guy 03/23/2005, 11:14pm PST NEW
                                Small fry? Oh how superior of you! Here's a tip guy: get out more. NT by bink 03/23/2005, 11:58pm PST NEW
                                    Here's you: totally ruining colons. by Fussbett 03/24/2005, 12:22am PST NEW
                            Re: In other news... by Mysterio OMFG COWARDLY ATOR 03/23/2005, 11:42pm PST NEW
                                Re: In other news... by Worm 03/23/2005, 11:51pm PST NEW
                                    Just quit responding to this guy. NT by bink 03/24/2005, 12:01am PST NEW
                                        Oh, thanks for the advice. by Worm 03/24/2005, 12:21am PST NEW
                                            Worm feels trolled, bink offers expert advice. by Mysterio OMFG COWARDLY ATOR 03/24/2005, 12:53am PST NEW
                                                Yeah, this is so great. NT by Worm 03/24/2005, 1:06am PST NEW
                                            Re: Oh, thanks for the advice. by Mysterio Explainer Guy 03/24/2005, 5:43am PST NEW
                                                Oh, and when that 'making fun of' looks like a mad fit, I'm being trolled right? NT by Worm 03/24/2005, 9:10am PST NEW
                                                    There was no mad fit, your read point #2 wrong. Retard. NT by Mysterio 03/24/2005, 10:09am PST NEW
                                                        I'm not talking about point 2. NT by Worm 03/24/2005, 12:11pm PST NEW
                                                            NT? by Quentin Beck 03/24/2005, 1:10pm PST NEW
                                                    Any post that insults you is a troll, doubly so if it's a Mysterio. No reply. NT by bink 03/24/2005, 12:00pm PST NEW
                                                Worm's kind of owning you in this thread, mysterio explainer guy. :( by I need clarification 03/24/2005, 9:15am PST NEW
                                                    Re: Worm's kind of owning you in this thread, mysterio explainer guy. :( by Casual observer 03/24/2005, 10:05am PST NEW
                                                        Oh, no wonder. NT by I need clarification 03/24/2005, 12:14pm PST NEW
                                                            Casual Obeserver is worried about brand dilution. What is funnier? NT by Fussbett 03/24/2005, 12:17pm PST NEW
                                                                The best part is that it probably wasn't the real Casual Observer by Voyons Donc 03/24/2005, 1:13pm PST NEW
                                                                    So the funniest CO post ever isn't by CO. Figures. NT by Fussbett 03/24/2005, 1:44pm PST NEW
                                                                bink giving Worm advice on how to deal with "trolls"? Twice? NT by Entropy Stew 03/25/2005, 1:00pm PST NEW
                                                                    It's like watching 2 retards try to make a spaceship out of their own drool. NT by Bill Dungsroman 03/25/2005, 2:46pm PST NEW
                                                        Pero que carajos! I'm being ATORed more than SB in his +/- switching days! NT by Casual observer 03/24/2005, 12:34pm PST NEW
                                                            Re: Pero que carajos! I'm being ATORed more than SB in his +/- switching days! by Souffle of Pain 03/24/2005, 6:07pm PST NEW
    New Low for a BitTorrent Community by Fussbett 12/03/2005, 12:15pm PST NEW
    Oink continues to wage war on users, functionality. by Fussbett 12/11/2005, 8:51pm PST NEW
        Re: Oink continues to wage war on users, functionality. by corax 12/11/2005, 9:45pm PST NEW
        How can one tell which ports the VoIP uses? NT by Mysterio 12/12/2005, 2:24am PST NEW
            Every ISP is probably different... by Fussbett 12/12/2005, 11:54pm PST NEW
        Not mentioned on the front page... by Pompei 12/16/2005, 10:10am PST NEW
    DISCLAIMERS by Fussbett 01/31/2006, 1:11pm PST NEW
        vertigo173 by Ice Cream Jonsey 01/31/2006, 8:37pm PST NEW
    Pleas by Fussbett 10/12/2006, 3:39pm PDT NEW
        How...? NT by Liz Enkittengasm 10/12/2006, 5:05pm PDT NEW
 
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