Caltrops - MMORPG Level Treadmill - Part 2 (clapstro exclusive!)

Forum Overview :: MMORPG Level Treadmill

by Creexul :( 02/26/2006, 10:15pm PST

Fussbett (10:07:10 PM): I'm halfway through reading it an so far I like it. Basically it's MMO HL2 CO-OP
Juh-howh Cable (10:07:23 PM): Exactly. :)
Fussbett (10:07:48 PM): So far I say forget guilds/clan and just do the freeform squads of BF2.
Juh-howh Cable (10:07:53 PM): You can play it sort of like a single player game (in the company of other players) or like a massively cooperative game, and possibly add SOME PVP (somehow) so there could be like a CS mode or something.
Fussbett (10:08:17 PM): Because they're great, and actually encourage new people to work together and shit, rather than the same people all the time.
Juh-howh Cable (10:08:37 PM): Well we could just call them guilds, but I figured anyone within a certain distance of any other player would technically be a squad, so they'd get notices if someone calls for a medic or is hurt or wants help.
Fussbett (10:08:44 PM): I actually have to take a break from reading your IMs for a second. :(
Juh-howh Cable (10:08:48 PM): Okay. :(
Fussbett (10:08:52 PM): This is unprecidented in the history of IMing
Juh-howh Cable (10:09:03 PM): O_____O
Fussbett (10:09:30 PM): Except if maybe a girl said that to a dude who was stalker her and writing a 12000 word essay on why they should commit suicide together.
Fussbett (10:09:36 PM): stalker = stalking
Juh-howh Cable (10:10:12 PM): My one thing about the squad concept is that you have to voluntarily join a squad or invite people or be invited or whatever, but with my idea it wouldn't even be necessary, you'd get all of the incentives of being in a squad without ever having to be in one, all you have to be is near other players.
Juh-howh Cable (10:10:20 PM): :(
Fussbett (10:11:45 PM): But the squad encourages people to stick together and makes you attached to other people in the game.
Juh-howh Cable (10:12:07 PM): Well the freeform system would still encourage people to stick together.
Fussbett (10:12:20 PM): It would encourage you to always fight WITH people, yes.
Juh-howh Cable (10:12:20 PM): You'd get more XP and money and be able to fight more enemies while sticking with other people.
Fussbett (10:12:34 PM): But you can wander off and now fight with these other guys.
Juh-howh Cable (10:12:41 PM): Yeah.
Fussbett (10:12:44 PM): And then hang back and fight with these new dudes.
Juh-howh Cable (10:12:47 PM): Well that would make it more like a full blown war.
Juh-howh Cable (10:12:59 PM): I mean if you could go off in any direction.
Juh-howh Cable (10:13:04 PM): Without having to stick with just the same 5 guys.
Fussbett (10:13:05 PM): So you don't work as a qsuad at all, because you know people will just run around like crazy.
Fussbett (10:13:21 PM): And if Billy gets shot, and you're not in his squad, you don't give a shit.
Juh-howh Cable (10:13:23 PM): No you'd get bonuses for being in a group.
Fussbett (10:13:35 PM): But if you've been fighting with Billy for the last hour, myabe you'll help him
Juh-howh Cable (10:13:42 PM): If some guy was injured you'd get points for healing him no matter who he was.
Juh-howh Cable (10:13:54 PM): So you'd want to go around healing everyone you can.
Fussbett (10:14:06 PM): Yes, which happens in BF2 as well.
Fussbett (10:14:18 PM): But there are still countless better experiences to be had in a squad.
Fussbett (10:14:28 PM): You're basically describing BF2 without squads.
Fussbett (10:14:35 PM): I get points for doing everything.
Fussbett (10:14:49 PM): Being ina squad gives me no actual bonus.
Fussbett (10:14:52 PM): But it's fun.
Juh-howh Cable (10:14:54 PM): Well I did want a way to be in groups with people.
Juh-howh Cable (10:15:00 PM): Sort of like a guild.
Juh-howh Cable (10:15:24 PM): But not as heavy with all the gay in guild ranking and OFFICER CHAT and I AM DEMOTING YOU FOR SWEARING OVER GUILD CHAT or some shit.
Fussbett (10:15:33 PM): The better thing about squads is that you don't need your dudes to be online and in the same part of the world.
Fussbett (10:15:45 PM): You just hook up with whoevers fighting right there and right now.
Juh-howh Cable (10:15:57 PM): Well that sounds more like a guild than a party.
Juh-howh Cable (10:16:08 PM): You're thinking of BF2 and I'm thinking of World of Wowcraft. :(
Fussbett (10:16:08 PM): Howso?
Fussbett (10:16:20 PM): Yeah, I'm thinking BF2. I said that 20 times!
Juh-howh Cable (10:16:30 PM): Well I'm thinking of a system that removes parties.
Fussbett (10:16:31 PM): WE'LL HASH OUT THE REST OF THIS DEBATE AT THE PRODUCTION MEETING MONDAY MORNING OVER DANISHES
Juh-howh Cable (10:16:32 PM): Not squads. :(
Juh-howh Cable (10:16:57 PM): I am thinking specifically of making a World of Warcraft style party unnecessary.
Fussbett (10:16:59 PM): http://www.viralchart.com/bloodonthecarpet/
Juh-howh Cable (10:17:18 PM): In that, if you're not all in the same little area, you are basically wasting everyone's time, taking up a space in someone's party without helping them.
Juh-howh Cable (10:18:37 PM): Hahahahahahahahaha.
Juh-howh Cable (10:18:38 PM): Nice. :)
Juh-howh Cable (10:18:52 PM): So do I post this log to clapstro? :(
Juh-howh Cable (10:19:00 PM): Or keep it secret so no one steals my ideas. ~_~
Fussbett (10:19:23 PM): Well I've got more thoughts, hold on.
Fussbett (10:19:36 PM): But do you plan on making this game?
Fussbett (10:19:39 PM): You and Jsoh?
Fussbett (10:19:47 PM): If not, I think you can post it.
Fussbett (10:20:00 PM): By the time you become a bigshot game designer, you'll probably have more ideas.
Juh-howh Cable (10:20:03 PM): Yeah I doubt that we'd be able to just throw this game together. :(
Juh-howh Cable (10:20:18 PM): I think this idea is definitely better than my fairy forest mod.
Fussbett (10:20:25 PM): agreed
Juh-howh Cable (10:20:29 PM): Which was really just a wacky spin on GTA3.
Juh-howh Cable (10:20:34 PM): It's got tree forts!
Juh-howh Cable (10:20:40 PM): Hollowed out trees as bases.
Fussbett (10:20:42 PM): It was a GTA3 TC
Juh-howh Cable (10:20:46 PM): Yeah. :(
Juh-howh Cable (10:21:19 PM): The only way this game would get made is to sell it to Valve and I really don't think they'd be that interested.
Juh-howh Cable (10:21:37 PM): Because it's not like I'm a developer or have experience in mapping or game design or models or whatever.
Juh-howh Cable (10:21:45 PM): I am just someone sitting around thinking about games.
Juh-howh Cable (10:21:55 PM): Not exactly someone you buy game ideas from or hire at a game company. :(
Juh-howh Cable (10:23:09 PM): One thing that sucks about Wowcraft parties is that if you want to do this quest, BUT you really really really need a party to do it, and no one else wants to do it, you're fucked.
Juh-howh Cable (10:23:32 PM): But everyone else is in a party because they're in the same guild.
Juh-howh Cable (10:24:11 PM): That's the upside to being able to go off solo and do anything, you wouldn't need a party if you wanted something done.
Juh-howh Cable (10:24:28 PM): At the same time being in the company of other players helps you get it done as long as it's not made a requirement to do it.
Juh-howh Cable (10:27:04 PM): So what forum do I post this in? :(
Juh-howh Cable (10:27:22 PM): =( or Reviews or Gamerasutra or World of Warcraft or Half-Life 2?
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Session concluded at 10:28:09 PM
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Fussbett (10:28:35 PM): On one server, if you go and try to defend a friendly hydrogen plant on the beach, and you fail, then that mission is wiped from the server.
Juh-howh Cable (10:28:46 PM): :(
Juh-howh Cable (10:28:53 PM): I was thinking of having missions be unfailable.
Fussbett (10:28:55 PM): (until it resets)
Fussbett (10:28:57 PM): No!
Juh-howh Cable (10:29:03 PM): At the same time it's possible to have things like that failable.
Fussbett (10:29:15 PM): In "clearing" missions, there is no faily, since you can just work on it forever.
Fussbett (10:29:25 PM): But there should be reactions to all actions.
Juh-howh Cable (10:29:27 PM): But I'm thinking what if some joker triggers it at like 2 am when no one else is on, so it plays out and is failed for all the regular players when they get on the next day?
Fussbett (10:29:49 PM): And if the hydrogen plant gets blown up, no one gets the server-wide +10 health bonus that was the reward.
Fussbett (10:30:02 PM): It can have minimum settings.
Juh-howh Cable (10:30:08 PM): Well that's a good incentive to keep track of it but still.
Fussbett (10:30:22 PM): n players for x hours and if it's unwon, the Combine finally blow it.
Juh-howh Cable (10:30:26 PM): I'm just thinking of how some people would go in and try to fuck up the game and get away with it, because someone always will.
Fussbett (10:30:37 PM): see above!!!!!!!1
Juh-howh Cable (10:30:40 PM): Well that would be like adding a time limit. :(
Juh-howh Cable (10:30:48 PM): But maybe that ain't bad.
Juh-howh Cable (10:30:57 PM): But would that be like almost the same as having it unfailable?
Fussbett (10:31:06 PM): In a defense mission, a time limit is fine, especially if the time limit is sliding, depending on the number of players at the time.
Juh-howh Cable (10:31:17 PM): Okay.
Fussbett (10:31:21 PM): No, because the 30 people defending the hydrogen can suck.
Fussbett (10:31:25 PM): So they can fail.
Juh-howh Cable (10:31:26 PM): Well with sliding scale hoobloo stuff it would make more sense anyway.
Juh-howh Cable (10:32:01 PM): This would also require multiple battle zones being open at the same time.
Juh-howh Cable (10:32:16 PM): Maybe make a few defense points, so while one would need so many players, the other would still need players.
Fussbett (10:32:17 PM): Why?
Juh-howh Cable (10:32:31 PM): Maybe make 10 defensive points, so that for each one you successfully defend you get the +1 health max.
Fussbett (10:32:36 PM): Why couldn't the thing going on at server #23 is the hydrogen defense?
Juh-howh Cable (10:32:38 PM): Or something I dunno. :(
Fussbett (10:32:43 PM): Oh ok, I like that.
Juh-howh Cable (10:34:37 PM): The different servers would all be running the same game by the way. :(
Juh-howh Cable (10:34:49 PM): I assume that each realm would need like a cluster or big ass hub just to run one.
Juh-howh Cable (10:34:55 PM): But World of Warcraft has like 200+ realms.
Fussbett (10:34:57 PM): Also, if you raid a Combie-controlled town, you can give them a time limit too, like, if you can get this cleared in one game day, they don't call in reinforcements.
Fussbett (10:35:18 PM): But if you take to long, you log in tomorrow and now there are dropships and gunships TOO.
Juh-howh Cable (10:35:27 PM): I figure if we had realms, each one would be able to be in different states of progress, so if one was at 70% and another was at 20% you'd want to join the game at 20% first.
Juh-howh Cable (10:35:41 PM): I like that. :)
Juh-howh Cable (10:35:53 PM): Maybe make it so it can be failed but the failing only makes more fighting required.
Fussbett (10:36:00 PM): It's good to give the players a sense of urgency and "don't fuck around"
Fussbett (10:36:04 PM): Right
Juh-howh Cable (10:36:14 PM): So if you don't want to fail your server has to be really on the ball, but if some slip up make it at least a little recoverable.
Fussbett (10:36:17 PM): Or failing means you don't get 10 health bonus
Juh-howh Cable (10:36:30 PM): I just don't want something where the server might fail and it's like "well you're all fucked, game resetting now."
Fussbett (10:36:35 PM): Just Obviously not
Fussbett (10:36:43 PM): Just = (nothing)
Juh-howh Cable (10:36:51 PM): I think better incentives than max health could be really awesome weapons too.
Juh-howh Cable (10:36:55 PM): Or crazy bonus equipment.
Juh-howh Cable (10:37:04 PM): Or a new bandolier with higher magazine max.
Fussbett (10:37:22 PM): The hydrogen plant one was linked to health specifically, because they'd process hydrogen into DELICIOUS WATER or whatever.
Juh-howh Cable (10:37:30 PM): Yes.
Juh-howh Cable (10:37:39 PM): That is good AND makes sense in the game canon universe thing. :)
Fussbett (10:37:46 PM): But yeah, there could be a raid on a Combine armory train.
Juh-howh Cable (10:38:00 PM): I was thinking also hydrogen could be used to fuel cars, so there could be vehicles or some way to transport things.
Fussbett (10:38:03 PM): And if you stop the train and kill everynoe, its GUNS ALL AROUND
Juh-howh Cable (10:38:11 PM): Maybe running ships so you could actually go off the cost into the water and fish or something.
Fussbett (10:38:15 PM): But if the train escapes, that's it for that mission.
Juh-howh Cable (10:38:33 PM): At the beginning I was really just satisfied with people doing the normal MMO grind where you just go kill a bunch of enemies to progress, and that's that.
Juh-howh Cable (10:38:40 PM): Because that's what most people do especially in Korea. :(
Juh-howh Cable (10:38:48 PM): A train robbery mission would be cool.
Juh-howh Cable (10:38:54 PM): Especially if you had to do it while the train was in motion.
Juh-howh Cable (10:38:58 PM): It would be like an instance too.
Juh-howh Cable (10:39:09 PM): I think it might work better as an instance anyway.
Juh-howh Cable (10:39:31 PM): Where you'd go through a portal and be isolated from the rest of the game world basically. :(
Juh-howh Cable (10:39:40 PM): And everyone in this instance would be one giant party.
Juh-howh Cable (10:40:15 PM): I think it's done so it would be easier to have the game work and load and shit.
Juh-howh Cable (10:40:38 PM): Because if people in the normal game world could interact with people in instances the servers might explode. O_O
Juh-howh Cable (10:40:40 PM): But I dunno.
Fussbett (10:41:24 PM): Yes, I think once you head off to "Raid the Combine Apartments", that would be a little portal.
Fussbett (10:41:31 PM): "LOADING COMBINE APARTMENTS"
Fussbett (10:41:40 PM): And then you arrive just outside the city.
Juh-howh Cable (10:41:48 PM): Exactly.
Juh-howh Cable (10:41:58 PM): This "portal" would just be a door of course but it would be marked as one that takes you to an instance.
Juh-howh Cable (10:42:22 PM): Actually I think the door portal should be the one that goes into the actual apartment, so when it loads you'd be in the front door on floor 1.
Fussbett (10:42:35 PM): Right. Or the classic "talk to John the Hovercraft operator to take you to the front lines"
Juh-howh Cable (10:42:35 PM): But the sniper entrance would be a seperate building where you snipe from the windows.
Juh-howh Cable (10:42:40 PM): Yes.
Juh-howh Cable (10:42:56 PM): I always though it should be possible to walk to the front lines too.
Juh-howh Cable (10:43:01 PM): I mean from where the town is to the main combat zone.
Juh-howh Cable (10:43:14 PM): But less walking would be required especially compared to like Wowcraft.
Juh-howh Cable (10:43:27 PM): Before you get to lvl 40, there is way way too damn much walking in that game. :(
Juh-howh Cable (10:44:15 PM): But anyway at the same time you should be able to have guys transport you to the main combat zones.
Juh-howh Cable (10:44:24 PM): But in real time.
Juh-howh Cable (10:44:59 PM): An instance where you are on a convoy of hovercrafts attacking a combine lake or sea outpost would be cool too probably.
Juh-howh Cable (10:45:54 PM): Or where you're on some ships that head towards a giant rig in the sea, and you fire as you approach (and snipers would come in handy there) and the snipers could stay on the ships and try to pick off enemies as they show up, while the rest of the players go up and raid the place.
Juh-howh Cable (10:46:02 PM): And maybe plant bombs so everyone has to jump off before it explodes.
Juh-howh Cable (10:46:20 PM): Either back onto the ship or right into the water (and then climb up a rope ladder on the side of the ship).