Forum Overview :: The Zionist Media Conspiracy
 
Compellingly reasonable yet... by Zsenitan 07/15/2009, 10:10am PDT
Fullofkittens wrote:

Geeks spend the first 12-15 years of their lives being ostracized and mocked for being in violation of arbitrary (and sometimes mysterious) social guidelines. There, at the bottom of the public school caste system, they find likeminded individuals and eventually get some friends who share an interest in things like underground music and movies.

And what do they do then? They develop their own ad hoc caste system, with its own arbitrary social guidelines. They just substitute "better taste" for "better clothes."

I question this full-on conflation of hipsters with high school losers, I think you're talking about a rather specific subset of hipsters (as I was too at points, with hipsters = trustifarians.) Keep in mind that there are a ton of hipsters still in high school!

Also the ad hoc arbitrary social order of the not-losers in high school was based on all kinds of things, and better clothes is assuredly the one that everyone keeps through adulthood. Take it from a permanently outre dresser, FOK. People will always give a shit how you are dressed and will always evaluate you on the merits of your shoes.

That's my argument #1: if you think non-hipsters aren't judging the shit out of you no matter how mature they are, that's just because it is like water and you are like a fish. Pro-grade line-toers are painfully aware of how little the rules have changed since kindergarten.

While their social betters back in high school are all now perfectly normal, average adults with no particular thoughts about who is cooler than who, the hipsters are stuck in a perpetual state of arrested development where they obsess over wearing the right clothes, listening to the right music, watching the right movies, reading the right authors. Hipsters can't let it go. They think that adulthood is like high school.


Things I have been senselessly and unfavorably judged on by normal average adults:

1. Being good at a task
2. The way I punctuate emails
3. My bra straps
4. My inability to enthusiastically enjoy Charles Dickens
5. My religion even though I make a point of never discussing it - with a fierce heat, this one. Someone has tried to convert me - in amazing, gross, presumptuous ways - at every job I've ever worked at.
6. My preferences in classical music
7. Being funnier than a co-worker
8. Weight
9. Make-up - so ferociously and frequently
10. Jokes told out of work to people who loved them at the time, with judgment rendered as though they were told at work to people who were openly crying as I joke-raped them
11. My favorite knowing that there was a plum tree on a spot of wild land 3 blocks away from the office. The woman two desks behind me curled her lip up and made the not-at-all-jokey assertion that I was either lying or a savage.

Let me recast the judgment on taste thing: let's say that it's not - it can't be - objective. That is: there's no Big Book Of Correct Taste. All your judges have to go on is their own experiences and the quality of your argumentation for your taste. You can see this dance in action on, say, music ratings communities on Live Journal, or people floating their favorite alt-country or hip hop bands as Truly Great at Pitchfork.

So this is a phenomenon with three dimensions:
- one, that the outcome can be influenced directly and relatively honestly by the taste-holder - let's call this non-randomness.
- two, that the outcome ultimately doesn't really matter all that much, and both the judged and the judge will remain free to pursue their individual preferences - let's call this low-riskiness.
- three, that the judgment is being opened and rendered is obvious, known to both parties, frequently explicitly solicited by one or both - let's call this transparency.

So now what we're looking at is cliques of the beseiged that are built up based on a type of judgment that looks and acts like a game. A game that the judged can win! A game they can make sense of, and where losing is relatively low-cost.

Argument #2: That's what I see when I look at communities that form around tastes in any cultural medium: a complicated game that is nevertheless - by virtue of being non-random, low-risk, and transparent - still much more pleasant and winnable than the horrible degraded vengeful senseless game being played by normal healthy adults.

Not that everyone on this forum isn't guilty of this behavior to some degree, including myself.

Two observations:
-Musicians are the worst in the world about this thing. One of the reasons I cannot stand to participate in my local "rock scene" is that it's fucking cliquish! These people are in their 30s and they're worried about cliques! Fuck that!

-It makes perfect sense that computer dorks (like the typical POE/OMM/Caltrops denizen) would be particularly sensitive to hipsterism, because in that infernal crucible of school, they identified with the hipsters right up until they became hipsters, and then suddenly their own people turned against them.


Again, I think the geeks = hipsters thing is a dangerous oversimplification on at least one end, but whatever. Still a valid observation as far as it goes.

Anyway, I think you will not be able to get people to stop being cliquish until you make everyone supremely confident in their identities. Choosing friends, coalitions, movies, music, etc. - all a process of identity-forming. Also, is there a magical line that we can draw that truly separates cliques from clubs? Also, two things:

1. Does being inclusive buy you something that I'm not aware of? Maybe I haven't been in enough cliques, but I have yet to have my hands tied by one except for of course the hands-tying clique. True, in a clique revolving around a specific interest - say, country music of the 1950's, or local bands that are kind of ripping of The Rapture - you had better really like that shit because your friends are going to listen to a lot of it and you will probably need to know about it too. But the good news is that there are billions of cliques with overlapping edges, both online and off. So you should be able to find some people who will agree with you blindly.

But not being in any cliques at all is lonely work. If my experience is anything to go by, it's the person involved in cliques who winds up with a full social calendar and who curates events and outings for his non-clique friends. "Want to come to Drink And Draw?" "Wanna come to Pub Quiz?" "Hey my rowing club is doin this regatta tomorrow, you busy?" "Hey the new Coldplay album is out, we're queuing for it at midnight and listening to banal AOR rock. Come with!" "New Harry Potter movie lol let's go to the theater in the poor people part of town and make fun of it!"

2. Getting back to the game-notion of taste cliquishness, perhaps a taste-based clique is also a way to sharpen and/or expand this specific part of one's identity. Caltrops is a clique premised on pure unpleasantness; the average Caltrops poster is defended against standard internet drama and insults in a way that seems godlike to, say, QT3 posters. So too: getting involved in a country music clique means learning more about country music in a personal and relationship-building way that you just couldn't if you were trying to learn about it on your own.
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I LOVE Dana Stevens! by laudablepuss 06/25/2009, 1:57pm PDT NEW
    She probably lost 25 of them when they name-dropped Obama NT by Fortinyoun Voidbringer 06/25/2009, 1:59pm PDT NEW
    Re: I LOVE Dana Stevens! by Ice Cream Jonsey 06/25/2009, 2:43pm PDT NEW
        Hur hur, I know you guys keep joshing her, hur hur by laudablepuss 06/25/2009, 2:59pm PDT NEW
            Re: Hur hur, I know you guys keep joshing her, hur hur by Ice Cream Jonsey 06/25/2009, 3:21pm PDT NEW
                Nice potential stalking victim, I THINK I'LL TAKE HER by bombMexico 06/25/2009, 6:24pm PDT NEW
                    Re: Nice potential stalking victim, I THINK I'LL TAKE HER by Ice Cream Jonsey 06/26/2009, 9:37am PDT NEW
                        If we were gentlemanly posters like Entropy Stew we could duel over her by bombMexico 06/26/2009, 5:22pm PDT NEW
                            This summer, excitement has Man-E-Faces... by Gruman 06/26/2009, 7:47pm PDT NEW
                            Re: If we were gentlemanly posters like Entropy Stew we could duel over her by Ice Cream Jonsey 06/26/2009, 11:18pm PDT NEW
                            Caltrops must be mobilized by Bunyip 06/28/2009, 5:47pm PDT NEW
                                Thundercats: The Next Furlennium NT by Entropy Stew 06/28/2009, 6:57pm PDT NEW
                                Voltron: The Gathering NT by Mischief Maker 06/28/2009, 7:16pm PDT NEW
                                M.A.S.K: Unmasked NT by Rafiki 06/29/2009, 11:36am PDT NEW
                                Street Fighter: The Legend of Chun-Li. Ahh fuck. NT by Fussbett 06/29/2009, 11:42am PDT NEW
                                The Smurfs: Asymptotic Protocols of Trancendence NT by Zsenitan 06/29/2009, 11:46am PDT NEW
                                Care Bears: Wrath of Ubbo-Sathla NT by E. L. Koba 06/29/2009, 12:38pm PDT NEW
                                Spiral Zone: You Don't Remember, But It Was Awesome, We Swear NT by Horrible Gelatinous Blob 06/29/2009, 2:44pm PDT NEW
                                Voltron: The Legend of the Missing Lion Fist (it was thrown away by your mom). NT by Creexuls, a monster >:3 06/29/2009, 2:46pm PDT NEW
                                He Man: Pride of Eternia NT by up with pod people 06/29/2009, 2:53pm PDT NEW
                                snooped by cracked.com (ok everyone can stop posting now) by Weyoun Voidbringer 06/29/2009, 3:22pm PDT NEW
                                Battle Beasts: The Elements Clash NT by Worm 06/29/2009, 3:31pm PDT NEW
                                i thought i had until the 30th >:( by bombMexico 06/29/2009, 6:11pm PDT NEW
                                    Oh, I figured out why you thought you had more time by Ice Cream Jonsey 07/02/2009, 9:54am PDT NEW
                                        Cobra Commander, General Zod, Kane, Cartman, Hitler...Ice Cream Jonesy :( by bombMexico 07/02/2009, 10:43pm PDT NEW
                                            Re: Cobra Commander, General Zod, Kane, Cartman, Hitler...Ice Cream Jonesy :( by Ice Cream Jonsey 07/03/2009, 12:05am PDT NEW
                                                Guys, let's get this libel train rolling down the track. by Fullofkittens 07/03/2009, 4:02am PDT NEW
                                                Jonesy, why do you even put up with those childish assholes? *FORUMS DELETED* NT by Dana Stevens 07/03/2009, 8:51am PDT NEW
                    I feel like I've seen this woman somewhere before... by Jerry Whorebach 07/06/2009, 1:00am PDT NEW
        ICJ you're wrong, Transformers 2 kicks ass NT by CO2 06/26/2009, 10:11pm PDT NEW
            ICJ thought king of kong was a documentary, and he still plays muds and text adv NT by Weyoun Voidbringer 06/27/2009, 1:09am PDT NEW
            I saw this through no fault of my own. by Quétinbec 07/04/2009, 3:33pm PDT NEW
                I also am attracted to the call you call "Megan Fox" NT by Exthor 07/04/2009, 3:40pm PDT NEW
                    On my planet well call girls calls. Seeing a call girl gets very confusing. NT by Exthor 07/04/2009, 3:41pm PDT NEW
    I didn't want to see this movie until she wrote that NT by Weyoun Voidbringer 06/26/2009, 9:58am PDT NEW
    Transformers 2 Verdict: Transcends categorization on good-bad axis. by Zsenitan 07/14/2009, 12:29pm PDT NEW
        Oh shit QB reminded me: yes, there's an "old" robot who is inexplicably British- by accented and who swaps sides. WHAT. 07/14/2009, 12:34pm PDT NEW
        that script cost eight million dollars by gruman 07/14/2009, 12:47pm PDT NEW
            AHAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA NT by Zsenitan 07/14/2009, 12:51pm PDT NEW
        I almost read this whole post, wow her thumb is fucked (is that a bandaid?) by Weyoun Voidbringer 07/14/2009, 1:21pm PDT NEW
        Triple irony: unironically coming up with convoluted reasons to justify ironic by viewing of horrible movie -Hipster 07/14/2009, 1:37pm PDT NEW
            Fabio, why can't you take your problems with hipsters to the hipsters by Zsenitan 07/14/2009, 2:44pm PDT NEW
                Who fucking cares NT by Fortinbras 07/14/2009, 3:14pm PDT NEW
                    PKB. Also: dispatches from the war on posting. NT by Zsenitan 07/14/2009, 3:20pm PDT NEW
                Re: Fabio, why can't you take your problems with hipsters to the hipsters by Quétinbec 07/14/2009, 3:55pm PDT NEW
                you are a hipster, ADMIT IT!!!!!!!!! NT by Weyoun Voidbringer 07/14/2009, 4:07pm PDT NEW
                The perfectly defensible reason to hate hipsters (within) by Fullofkittens 07/14/2009, 6:57pm PDT NEW
                    Hate from the heart, not from the mind! NT by Worm 07/14/2009, 7:08pm PDT NEW
                    I am reminded about that article on why hipster chicks are so hot from rolling s NT by Weyoun Voidbringer 07/14/2009, 8:22pm PDT NEW
                    yes by FABIO 07/14/2009, 8:29pm PDT NEW
                        Re: yes by Creexuls, a monster >:3 07/14/2009, 8:35pm PDT NEW
                            (link above is NWS) NT by Fullofkittens 07/15/2009, 9:12am PDT NEW
                                More like Not Jurisdiction Safe NT by Fortinbras 07/15/2009, 9:50am PDT NEW
                                The fact that it says alisakiss hentaibunny wasn't enough of a clue? 8( NT by Creexuls, a monster >:3 07/15/2009, 11:27am PDT NEW
                            Re: yes by Zsenitan 07/16/2009, 4:35pm PDT NEW
                                hm I wonder what mc chris has to say about kingdom hearts NT by Weyoun Voidbringer 07/16/2009, 4:46pm PDT NEW
                                half of that site is about world of shitfuck, it's horrible by Weyoun Voidbringer 07/16/2009, 5:05pm PDT NEW
                                    all of their author icons are fucking wow characters (no horde but belfs also) by Weyoun Voidbringer 07/16/2009, 9:58pm PDT NEW
                                        picture EXTREMELY related to topic by Weyoun Voidbringer 07/16/2009, 11:32pm PDT NEW
                                    "Honestly, give me an asshole screaming on voice chat for me to pick up my game" NT by Fortinbras 07/17/2009, 12:32am PDT NEW
                                        it's hard to fish for pity if you are crying for no good reason, hence the quote NT by Weyoun Voidbringer 07/17/2009, 1:17am PDT NEW
                                "Graphic Novels are vastly under appreciated." by Suzie, a girl 07/16/2009, 9:45pm PDT NEW
                    Compellingly reasonable yet... by Zsenitan 07/15/2009, 10:10am PDT NEW
                Re: Fabio, why can't you take your problems with hipsters to the hipsters by Haile Selassie 07/15/2009, 11:47am PDT NEW
        Re: Transformers 2 Verdict: Transcends categorization on good-bad axis. by Quétinbec 07/14/2009, 3:49pm PDT NEW
            Re: Transformers 2 Verdict: Transcends categorization on good-bad axis. by Jerry Whorebach 07/14/2009, 6:14pm PDT NEW
                Re: Transformers 2 Verdict: Transcends categorization on good-bad axis. by Quétinbec 07/14/2009, 10:02pm PDT NEW
        You=Boring by Boring=You 09/10/2009, 8:57pm PDT NEW
 
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