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Re: Oink: the slow slide into fascism. by Ray of Light 01/07/2005, 5:19pm PST
Senor Barborito wrote:

You're a faggot for listing off your precious post and none of the (what might be assumed from your posture of victory) responses kneeling to the grace of your "rhetoric."


I didn't want to prejudice your opinion of the piece. See below, in a section I like to call "Appendix A".

As it happened I had similar, though less policy/more Lincoln-Douglas style, discussions with the site users and admins before the ratio system was even installed.


So they went well.

Generous, giving, seeing-it-their-way discussions about values and ethics and free music solidarity. I got the grudging admission that I had a point, but not a point that meant anything to the guys who want to have admin or Power User status.


Grudging admissions mean nothing!

Let me be the first to cynically point out that until you have baldfresh or one of those similar admin Nazis "finding the truth on his own", you haven't demonstrated much at Oink besides your grasp of Shirky's Law and your failure to grasp the bizarre pride +1 ratio uploaders feel.


Anyone who's vocal -- on either side of the matter -- is likely irrelevant. In the anatomy of an opinion, zealots are the lower intestinal tract: noisy and hardworking, they output what they are given, heard by all, respected by none. That you consider their swaying to be paramount, only confirms to me you've been talking to the wrong end of this thing all along.

There's a large body of people who read and decide, and occasionally post, based on some weighted combination of what's locally best for them and what's globally most consistent with their values. Let's call them the stomach. They're the ones you want to convince, because they'll influence what comes out of the zealots, who in turn comprise "popular opinion" for the decision-makers.

That fertiizer metaphor I used was really great and apt. You must plant the seeds of the idea where they can take hold, and protect it by articulating responses to common attacks, and nourish it by giving a fresh voice to the idea once your old arguments have been repeated so often that they're stale.

You can't change popular opinion by tackling its proponents head on. Let the people do it for you, that's what they're there for.

Ray!




Appendix A: Praise for Ray's Post



Keep in mind that, this being the 'leet user forum, all of these users have th "cheap prestige" you mentioned.

some guy wrote:

naknak, no one could ever put it better than you just did. nice post and good point.
Same to you buddy!

another guy wrote:

There is merit to your argument. But it applies to the fundamental philosphy of file sharing. As in Communism, in theory, yes it is good and if everyone does his share selflessly, and we will be living in utopia. Unfortunately, we all know that it's not the way the world works. The idea of a ratio system is to encourage people to seed or to upload their work to level out what he has taken. Yes, it is not perfect; but if I have to constantly badysitting the ten, twently torrents I uploaded, how do propose we get the additional resources to upload more new torrents. Besides, what most of us discussing is how to reward those has done way more than he should. As for leechers, they come and go and more will come.
This guy is ready to be sold. Those protests are buying questions; he just wants assurances that his world will not crumble when it changes. People fear change.

a third wrote:

Maybe its about time that people looked more at the 'number of torrents' uploaded section a bit harder than the ratio....(snip)
He doesn't even refer to my post, you'll note. The memes are already being digested by the group's consciousness.

what about this guy? wrote:

I see what is being said about the ratio system being flawed, but I dont quite understand it. (snip anecdotal evidence about the ease of reaching 1.0, concerns about excessive freeloading in a world without ratios)
See comments from guy #2.

But, really, I'm most proud of this thread, which took place in an outside forum so you can go read it yourself. It's proof positive that the ideas are digestible and that people are ready to hear them.




PREVIOUS NEXT REPLY QUOTE
 
Oink: the slow slide into fascism. by Senor Barborito 01/06/2005, 7:42pm PST NEW
    Re: Oink: the slow slide into fascism. by Ray of Light 01/07/2005, 5:00am PST NEW
        Re: Oink: the slow slide into fascism. by Ray of Light 01/07/2005, 5:59am PST NEW
            Who was Clay Shirky on OMM? Apparently he frequented the forums by foolio 01/07/2005, 7:01pm PST NEW
                Hokie Mokie NT by Fullofkittens 01/07/2005, 7:38pm PST NEW
                    So he posted to clapstro too then. NT by Creexul :( 01/07/2005, 8:07pm PST NEW
                        Yeah a few times, but he had kids or something and wandered off. NT by jeep 01/07/2005, 11:22pm PST NEW
                            That's totally gay. NT by Creexul :( 01/09/2005, 1:43pm PST NEW
                            Re: or something by Maxime Faget 01/09/2005, 2:40pm PST NEW
        Re: Oink: the slow slide into fascism. by Senor Barborito 01/07/2005, 10:10am PST NEW
            Re: Oink: the slow slide into fascism. by Ray of Light 01/07/2005, 5:19pm PST NEW
    Re: Oink: the slow slide into fascism. by Choson 01/07/2005, 5:24pm PST NEW
        Even easier! by Ray of Light 01/07/2005, 7:50pm PST NEW
            I haven't been using oink by jeep 01/08/2005, 12:02am PST NEW
                Re: I haven't been using oink by Creexul :( 01/09/2005, 1:45pm PST NEW
 
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