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EVERYTHING you say is exceedingly simple, moron. It's in your DNA. by I need clarification 05/27/2003, 9:25pm PDT
Lizard_King wrote:

I need clarification wrote:


Yes. Using the example of our straw men proves you need straw men to make your argument, idiots!!

Also:

1. "Kill a sufficient number of terror providers to keep the supply of anti-american attack to a low hum" is the most self-contradictory statement in the history of the Bush II administration, which is saying something. The fact you can write something like that without any evidence of irony or even self-awareness indicates you not only buy Rumsfeld's drivel whole cloth, you have trouble formulating opinions during the respite between White House talking points releases.


Nice ad hominem attack. Yet you do not at any point state why it is contradictory or absurd. As usual, your statement is predicated on the other party being offended and correspondingly silenced, rather than, say, "wrong".


Fine, I'll spell it out for you (with those fancy numbers you like so much!):

1. No matter how many people we kill in the world, we will never kill all the people who want to kill us.
2. The more people we kill under the guise of "liberating" them or ridding them of imaginary weapons of mass distruction, the more likely they are to want to kill us. Witness our reaction to 9/11. I'm not saying it's the equivalent of what we're doing to Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, Syria, et al, I'm saying we should expect to elicit the exact same emotional responses 9/11 did with us. We can't expect your average Abdul on the streets of Tehran to say to himself as the bombs are falling, "Well, this should have been expected. I'm a radicalized Muslim whose hatred of the United States is unfounded and I should simply allow the death of my kids/wife/brother/dog to educate me in proper Citizenship Of The World."
3. If you erect bogeymen like Osama Bin Laden as the cause for all the terrorism effect in the world, you're setting yourself up for continuous disappointment and phoney surprise each time an attack is carried out. Does anyone think the coordinated attacks last week in Morocco wouldn't have happened if Osama were dead?
4. What is "a low hum?"


I need clarification wrote:


Wait a minute. Because Rumsfeld was appointed by an unelected president means his cracked vision of American foreign policy (invade! invade! invade!) is more legitimate than anyone else's? Get the fuck out of my country, fag. I'm talking about you, Lizard_King. If you're willing to subject your life and everyone else's to the whim of these idiots, that's your prerogative. But trying to win an argument you've already helped yourself lose by saying only those in charge get a say in how things are done goes against everything this country stands for, and I won't have traitorous bastards in this country. At least not in shackles. Please escort yourself to the nearest border or coast and keep walking.

Thanks!


Lizard_King wrote:

1. It is really, really tiresome to hear this tired canard of Bush being unelected again and again. Have you nothing better in your pitiable little arsenal? The US is a republic, NOT a fucking democracy. That means our electoral process is designed to balance population against location, so that it will not be a simple matter of NY, CA, and TX telling the rest of the country what to do. What's more, if you would bother to read any news besides that which comes from sources that agree with you directly, you would have found out that Bush did, in fact, win the Florida recount as performed by various media groups and released a year after the election. So shut the fuck up, already.


Is it tiresome to hear tired things? It's tiring to hear tired people tiredly talking about tired concept in a tiresome and tiring manner, and as tired as I may be, I think your tiresome response couldn't come at a more timely time.

I agree that Bush is the President, by whatever means he made it in to office. But to suggest that "only the people in office have a legitimate right to express their opinion about foreign policy" has nothing to do with the US being a republic. My point is that the legitimacy of Bush's own appointed counsel, TO ME AT LEAST, is far more suspect than Fusbette coming on here and saying that maybe bombing every country in the world that we suspect may one day decide to attack us without any sort of consensus from other countries, even those in the region, may not be the wisest choice. Certainly Robert McNamara realized 30 years later that his policy of Vietnamization was a load of shit. Do we really have to wait 30 years for Rumsfeld to come to the same conclusion? What's wrong with right now? What's wrong with listening to Colin Powell for a change, instead of Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz?

Lizard_King wrote:

2. Are you suggesting that somehow democracy is inherently legitimizing? So if 99 out of 100 villagers elect to kill the 100th villager and take his possessions, that would no doubt be completely legitimate in your view, since it was not only democratic, but overwhelmingly so. I would expect nothing less from someone like yourself...
Democratic process is but one (important) part of a constitutional republic such as the United States, which is designed both to be reasonably responsive to the people's desires and restrain their worst impulses. IE, should Al Sharpton get elected President, the other branches of government would be able to minimize the more radical elements of his agenda.


Yes, I'm suggesting we let Al Sharpton run the country and that we live in a country where 99 people would want to kill one particular person. Unfortunately, those 99 people work in the White House and the one person is the straw man they constructed to help legitimize their lust for war and whatever profitable business it may bring their campaign contributors.

Can't you debate anything without going to ridiculous extremes? Were you dropped on your head four times as a child, or only three? Also, please stop expecting things of "people like me." You're not as smart as us, it's an exercise in futility for you to try and predict what we will do.

Finally, a large percentage of the country thought the war in Iraq was unnecessary. When the president says he "doesn't pay attention" to those people, that's not "restraining their worst impulses." That's ignoring the populace of the country. You are correct: the legitimacy of Bush's presidency won't be defined by the legal maneuverings that got him the office. It will be defined by what he did once he got into office. So far, he hasn't acted very presidential, nor representative.

Lizard_King wrote:

3. If you think strong foreign policy stands against everything our country is based on, I suggest you take a closer look at the history of this century, you fucking idiot.


Your definition of "strong foreign policy" is laughable, if it weren't so tragic. The idea that we will somehow whip the rest of the world into shape by invading any country we think isn't getting with the program is bound to failure. We can dismiss every dissenting country as "old Europe" or "16th Century Religious Oligarchy" or whatever else we want, but we have enmeshed ourselves economically and strategically with the rest of the world, and we can't afford to simultaneously engage them militarily while isolating ourselves financially. And we won't. So, what is the long-term plan, Wile E. Coyote?
PREVIOUS NEXT REPLY QUOTE
 
War on Terror may create World of Terror says Rumsfeld. by Fussbett 05/24/2003, 1:20pm PDT NEW
    Re: War on Terror may create World of Terror says Rumsfeld. by Mh 05/24/2003, 6:40pm PDT NEW
    I thought we got rid of terror when we invaded Iraq! NT by The Ironic One 05/24/2003, 6:53pm PDT NEW
    One day this war on terror is going to end :( NT by Col. Kilgore 05/24/2003, 8:43pm PDT NEW
    Re: War on Terror may create World of Terror says Rumsfeld. by Lizard_King 05/25/2003, 3:28pm PDT NEW
        I'll keep this simple by fag packet 05/26/2003, 3:08am PDT NEW
            Re: I'll keep this simple by fag packet 05/26/2003, 3:18am PDT NEW
            Terrorism won when we declared the war on it and passed the Patriot Act by Senor Barborito 05/26/2003, 4:48pm PDT NEW
                Example by Senor Barborito 05/26/2003, 8:41pm PDT NEW
                    Re: Example by Jhoh Creexul 05/26/2003, 10:22pm PDT NEW
                Re: Terrorism won when we declared the war on it and passed the Patriot Act by Lizard_King 05/27/2003, 3:10am PDT NEW
                    I'll grant the first, actually, but not the second by Senor Barborito 05/27/2003, 6:50am PDT NEW
                        Re: I'll grant the first, actually, but not the second by Lizard_King 05/27/2003, 8:45pm PDT NEW
            Re: I'll keep this simple by Lizard_King 05/27/2003, 3:03am PDT NEW
                Re: I'll keep this simple by I need clarification 05/27/2003, 3:50am PDT NEW
                    Holy fuck I agree with you and Fussbett both?! NT by Senor Barborito 05/27/2003, 6:57am PDT NEW
                    I'll keep this extra simple for INC's sake. by Lizard_King 05/27/2003, 8:32pm PDT NEW
                        EVERYTHING you say is exceedingly simple, moron. It's in your DNA. by I need clarification 05/27/2003, 9:25pm PDT NEW
                            Re: EVERYTHING you say is exceedingly simple, moron. It's in your DNA. by Lizard_King 05/28/2003, 2:18am PDT NEW
                                Just a nit... by Chairman Mao 05/28/2003, 2:25am PDT NEW
                                    Re: Just a nit... by foogla 05/28/2003, 3:23am PDT NEW
                                    Re: Just a nit... by Lizard_King 05/28/2003, 6:10pm PDT NEW
                                        Yeah I thought you'd say something like that. NT by Chairman Mao 05/28/2003, 6:31pm PDT NEW
                                You're (still) boring by I need clarification 05/29/2003, 3:35am PDT NEW
                                    Re: You're (still) boring by Lizard_King 05/30/2003, 1:16pm PDT NEW
                                        Jesus, you're fucking predictable. And boring. by Satire 05/30/2003, 2:19pm PDT NEW
                                            Doh! I mean NT by I need clarification 05/30/2003, 5:46pm PDT NEW
                                                Thanks NT by I need clarification 05/30/2003, 6:18pm PDT NEW
                                            Re: Jesus, you're fucking predictable. And boring. by Lizard_King 05/30/2003, 11:15pm PDT NEW
                                                I win!! You ARE boring! by I need clarification 05/31/2003, 2:00am PDT NEW
                                                    You fucking idiot. by Lizard_King 05/31/2003, 1:31pm PDT NEW
                                                        Re: You fucking idiot. by foogla 05/31/2003, 3:10pm PDT NEW
                                                            Re: You fucking idiot. by Lizard_King 05/31/2003, 11:48pm PDT NEW
                                                                I need smileys by foogla 06/01/2003, 6:15am PDT NEW
                                                                fixed last quote by foogla 06/01/2003, 6:16am PDT NEW
                                                                    Re: fixed last quote by Lizard_King 06/01/2003, 12:11pm PDT NEW
                                                                        Re: fixed last quote by foogla 06/01/2003, 2:57pm PDT NEW
                                                        Man, you really stick to the playbook, don't you? by I need clarification 05/31/2003, 5:51pm PDT NEW
                                                            As usual, your "arguments" are disappointing and trite. by Lizard_King 05/31/2003, 11:38pm PDT NEW
                                                                fucked up the quotes above. NT by Lizard_King 05/31/2003, 11:39pm PDT NEW
                                                                Fucked up the argument above as well. HA! by I need clarification 06/01/2003, 2:34am PDT NEW
                                                                    Pitiful. Your posts are just getting worse. by Lizard_King 06/01/2003, 12:00pm PDT NEW
                                                                        Re: Pitiful. Your posts are just getting worse. by fag packet 06/01/2003, 9:11pm PDT NEW
                                                                            Unfortunately by Senor Barborito 06/02/2003, 12:12am PDT NEW
                                                                            Re: Pitiful. Your posts are just getting worse. by Lizard_King 06/02/2003, 10:25pm PDT NEW
                                                                                Deep sigh by fag packet 06/03/2003, 3:36am PDT NEW
                                                                                    Well, I'm glad we cleared at least part of that up. by Lizard_King 06/03/2003, 2:57pm PDT NEW
                                                                        You have ONE unheard messages. To hear new messages, click here. by I need clarification 06/01/2003, 11:31pm PDT NEW
                                                                            Re: You have ONE unheard messages. To hear new messages, click here. by Lizard_King 06/02/2003, 10:14pm PDT NEW
                                                                                Mind if I chime in here? by Senor Barborito 06/02/2003, 10:28pm PDT NEW
                                                                                    Re: Mind if I chime in here? by Lizard_King 06/02/2003, 11:30pm PDT NEW
                                                                            Re: You have ONE unheard messages. To hear new messages, click here. by Lizard_King 06/02/2003, 10:26pm PDT NEW
                Re: I'll keep this simple by Fussbett 05/27/2003, 4:18am PDT NEW
            What a pouty child you are by Diotallevi 05/27/2003, 7:39pm PDT NEW
                Thanks for addressing that portion so effectively. NT by Lizard_King 05/27/2003, 8:46pm PDT NEW
                    ...and thank YOU for reponding to yourself. NT by Nick Detective... still holding out 05/27/2003, 8:54pm PDT NEW
                        Fag. Keep trying, though. NT by Lizard_King 05/27/2003, 9:08pm PDT NEW
                            Dear Cocksucker by fag packet 05/28/2003, 9:13pm PDT NEW
                                Dear Shit Drinker by Lizard_King 05/30/2003, 1:21pm PDT NEW
                                    Re: Dear Shit Drinker by John Ashcroft 05/30/2003, 1:45pm PDT NEW
                                        "Enterprize"? OMFG clever RFOFLOFL NT by Excited commie shitheads everywhere 05/30/2003, 11:18pm PDT NEW
                                    We Are No More. by Higher Standards 05/31/2003, 3:25am PDT NEW
                And, cunt - by fag packet 05/28/2003, 9:38pm PDT NEW
                Dio you rule by Steve Lollerson 2 06/04/2003, 11:26am PDT NEW
    Re: War on Terror may create World of Terror says Rumsfeld. by foogla 05/27/2003, 6:56am PDT NEW
        U.S. to Planet: Suck our collective dick. by Moab 05/27/2003, 8:04am PDT NEW
            So by Senor Barborito 05/27/2003, 8:12am PDT NEW
                Re: So by Moab 05/27/2003, 8:23am PDT NEW
                    Switzerland? We could be like the Von Trapp family with more dicksucking! by Senor Barborito 05/27/2003, 8:32am PDT NEW
                        Ok, I give up. NT by NT Helper 05/27/2003, 9:32am PDT NEW
                            You realize I'm trolling you at this point, right? by Senor Barborito 05/27/2003, 9:35am PDT NEW
                                That's why I gave up. by NT Helper 05/27/2003, 9:39am PDT NEW
 
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