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| GRANNY PORN RAMPAGE!!! by Binro the Heretic 04/26/2003, 12:28am PDT | ||||
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OldManMurray - Forum Home - Max Payne Forum - Top Of ThreadRE:Some thoughts Monty Cantsin 08/26/01 01:32:23 AM Senor, your thoughts on the matter seem to be growing more complex and subtle. If these brain boxes are as diverse and flexible as you say I may consent to try one aftera- hey! wait a minute! I must redouble my efforts! En garde! Now if I could figure out which one of us was the aging knight and which the windmill. Quake, the Holodeck, the brainbox, 'virtual reality', and any subsequent buzzwords to spill forth from Lanier... I don't know if I've already mentioned this here, but one of the things that Lanier used to say was like nails on a chalkboard to me: ''Post-symbolic communication''. The basic idea was that in VR you didn't need abstract symbolic languages. You wouldn't have to use the word 'rain' if you could create rain itself with a wave of your hand. The thinking here is that language is something that gets in the way of communication like a clumsy middle man, and that VR would allow you to get rid of this intermediate step, closing the gap that symbolic language occupies between speaker and listener, and between idea and thing. Let's assume for a moment that this is, in fact, going to happen. Imagine a conversation between our great- great- grandchildren (Or, if you like, between my great great grandchild and you) that takes place inside of a state-of-the-art simulated world. Monty V is trying to explain to V-Barborito that surplus condensation in the neutrino collector tank has a 12% chance of creating a vapor-lock that could compromise security protocol in the shared memory array in sector seven. And he's also trying to imply that this something he thought they agreed V-Barborito would look into a couple of years ago, but apparently he still hasn't done it, so, like, what's the deal? (And if you're thinking that this kind of conversation won't need to take place because of the AI slave geniuses that will monitor all this stuff, and the master-class sentients will just float around having fun and making art, then just imagine that what Monty V is doing is reciting a poem called Surplus Condensation in the Neutrino Collector Tank has a 12% Chance of Creating a Vapor-Lock that Could Compromise Security Protocol in the Shared Memory Array in Sector Seven.) In any event, it's obvious that no kind of ''post-symbolic'' language would be up to the task. Unless you imagine Monty V conjuring up a precise copy of Sector Seven and zooming into various parts of it and then simultaneously spinning out one hundred possible outcomes of this situation, 12 of which show security protocol (which looks like what?) being compromised. The whole thing would be so confusing and take so long that by the time you had a clue what he was trying to say the whole complex would be vapor-locked and shorted-out and all your precious memories would be gone and the dome would bust open and the wolves would come in and eat through your cables and drink up all the neutrinos and you would die! Anyway, I know you never proposed such a thing, and I'm not saying you believe Lanier's fallacy of a post-symbolic language, but I can't help seeing that fallacy as somehow the purest form of this ideal you believe in and are working toward. It is the urge to 'close the gap'. To make a picture of a thing that is so accurate and deep it leaps the gap and replaces the thing. To make a picture of the world that is indistinguishible from the world. Whereas I believe so completely and desperately that the great and powerful thing about pictures and words is that gap. The point of pictures and words is they are distinguishible from the world. That's how they do their work, that's how and why they exist. Let's say you have an image that is indistinguishible from the world, it's completely uninteresting! It's just more world! You're back where you started! If you're inside it, and you want to say anything about this world you'll have to look around for a part of the image that looks like a stick and start scratching out marks, and then the whole fucking thing starts all over again! Spector is important because unlike many game designers he consistently demonstrates a path that lends itself simultaneously to greater immersion and greater validation of gaming as art via narrative-within-world-system. Spector is one step along the bridge to linking the abstractionist past to the naturalist present and thereby creating a much greater, even historically significant, future. I basically agree with you here. And despite the fact that I find Miyamoto, for example, more masterful and accomplished, I find Spector more interesting and in some ways more important for precisely this reason. Because he is fighting in his head and in his work this argument we are having right now. He has that American disease that Diotallevi was talking about, that expansionist, manifest destiny thing. He's going somewhere, and I think he'll discover something. I'm sorry to tell you I'm pretty sure it won't be the fountain of youth. What would it take to convince you it could be something much, much better? It's almost like the history of painting in reverse. Yeah, doesn't that ring an alarm? /mc =========================================================== Put 'inverted commas' before and after that bit. And 'Spoiler space'. And maybe NWS, I don't know, depends where you work. |
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Grand Theft Auto pt.1 Full Download by 04/25/2003, 3:24pm PDT  GRANNY PORN RAMPAGE!!! by 04/26/2003, 12:28am PDT :( NT by 04/26/2003, 1:38am PDT I'd agree, if I thought it were actually Binro NT by 04/26/2003, 1:42am PDT Mind posting what he was replying to, while you're at it? NT by 04/26/2003, 2:57am PDT Re: Mind posting what he was replying to, while you're at it? by 04/27/2003, 9:06pm PDT [Would you] mind posting [that post's parent, since] you're [posting old shit]? NT by 04/27/2003, 9:37pm PDT I'll just check my OMM archive! by 04/27/2003, 11:21pm PDT Re: I'll just check my OMM archive! by 04/28/2003, 10:33am PDT MONTY IS MY HERO BITCH by 04/29/2003, 1:19am PDT |
