Caltrops - Operation: Hammer Time - Re: Let's make a real score card

Forum Overview :: Operation: Hammer Time

by Senor Barborito 04/10/2003, 6:31pm PDT

laudablepuss wrote:

Anti-war argument: The Iraqis don't want or need our help!
Actual fact: The opposite was shown to be true. There were strong indications that the folks making this claim were morons long before the war ever began.

Actual Super-Fact: Of course the Iraqis needed our help. What they don't want is the US running their country anymore than they did Saddam - most reporters I've read asking Iraqis their opinions have walked away with the impression that they wanted neither Saddam nor the US running their country. Despite this, we'll be running their country for close to a year running to around three years (or more! Who knows!). Unsuprisingly, they'll take our money and aid - but quite frankly we created that humanitarian mess in the first place so yeah, we pretty much fucking owe it to them to clean it up.

"You''ll soon be free . . . in three years and after we've got some good oil contracts locked in place."
--Bush quote with truth appended.

laudablepuss wrote:

Anti-war argument: The US is just doing it for oil profits.
Actual fact: We will never recoup the money we've spent and plan to spend on liberating and rebuilding Iraq.

Actual Super-Fact: If you'd read my number crunching of the DOE and OPEC oil production statistics from about three-four months prior to the war on this board, you'd have noticed in the midst of my math that (actually, at the very end - in fact the entire point of the whole fucking conclusion) simply taking Iraqi oil production from pre-war level to levels equivalent to the rest of OPEC (a task that's doable inside of five years according to the DOE) would generate enough new income to pay off the war in four to five years. That's just the value of that 15-20% increase in production, mind, not total production.

Watch the magic trick:
1) Get oil company from daddy
2) Go to Yale and become President based on daddy being president
3) start war with oil-producing company that tried to kill daddy :(
4) Get taxpayers to foot $80 billion bill
5) Insist Iraqis help pay for war against themselves (which put them into indentured servitude to your oil company)
6) Skim tons of money off the top via exclusive contracts your oil company now has
7) Profit!

In effect, a good portion of the money we pay in taxes to help fund the war goes straight to the pocketbooks of the people who got us into it arguably needlessly.

If only the people making Linux were so devious or willing to sacrifice the lives of others - maybe they'd get to the 'Profit!' step for once. Maybe the truth is that the '??????' in the traditional step three always has to be 'prey on the lives of other people.'

laudablepuss wrote:

Anti-war argument: Saddam was not involved with Al-Quaeda.
Actual fact: Undoubtedly true.

Actual Super-Fact: Yeah it's too bad the overwhelming majority of Americans (can't recall if the latest survey was 70 or 80%, but around there) believe he was. Remember that American stupidity is only a silly European characterization.

laudablepuss wrote:

Anti-war argument: Saddam did not have WMDs.
Actual fact: Still uncertain. I personally have no doubt whatsoever that we'll find some nast shit. There are reports of an underground nuke facility being discovered . . . I'll wait and see on that.

laudablepuss wrote:

Anti-war argument: Inspections could work if only we'd let them.
Actual fact: Inspections were and still are difficult to defend, IMO. Especially if we find WMDs, this argument will be a tough sell.

Actual Super-Fact: Saddam didn't have WMDs like your friend who said 'duude' too much in high school didn't have just a little bit of pot hidden SOMEWHERE in his room (hint: he did). Wasn't too much, wasn't as much as he bragged about (the US claimed), but there was some. However, with his parents (inspectors) in his room (country) 100% of the time and more coming every day, he wasn't going to be able to take his baggie out (work on the weapons). He *certainly* wasn't going to toke up (ready the missles), or start dealing (use them against Israel) with that being the case.

If he'd gotten upset about his privacy and yelled at his parents (thrown the inspectors out), their beating him (the war) would have been legitimate and deserved as far as family, friends, and the weird guy across the street who works at the police station (France) were concerned.

laudablepuss wrote:

Anti-war argument: terrorism will only increase due to our beligerence.
Actual fact: Too early to tell. It obviously has little effect on Al-Quaeda -- these guys would try to kill us regardless. Maybe they'll have more recruits now. The big question is whether terrorist organizations that have historically not targeted Americans (much) like Hamas will change their tactics now. (Or maybe that's not the big question, I'm not an expert.)

Actual Super-Fact: Al-Quaeda is dead. However, there are plenty of other groups of people with funds and access to conventional weapons and lots of money funneled to them by angry Islamic clerics. Will any of them be competent is the question. Fortunately, judging from the fairly detailed accounting of Al Quaeda's encryption and communication tech I've read, it appears that terrorists don't really care about getting caught - the stuff we use for Caltrops is orders of magnitude superior and we don't even have a reason for the US government to be after us.

In fact the primary reason I hated Al-Quaeda had nothing to do with their killing thousands of innocent civilians - oh no, I'm all about that shit. But not doing it well? Jesus Christ, take a little pride in your work!

laudablepuss wrote:

Anti-war argument: Saddam posed no threat to the US.
Actual fact: While "no threat" is a bit of an exaggeration, it seems unlikely that Saddam himself had any intention to lob WMDs our way. My contention is that WMDs in his possesion would be relatively easy targets for theft. I now doubt seriously that he'd ever engage in state-sponsered terrorism against us after his pathetic attempt to kill Bush Sr.

Actual Super-Fact: He'd have been a threat in several years' time, no question, depending on what/how much the inspectors found had they been allowed to do their job - and quite conveniently we had (and have) this actual emergency situation going on with Korea right now. Oh yeah! Afghanistan! Forgot all about them! Funny, just like Bush forgot them on this year's budget. Haha! Whoops! Sorry, Carl - I mean Afghanistan, I'm afraid we're going to have to happysize you because we can't fit you into the departmental budget this quarter. Better luck with your next job - I mean superpower.

--SB