Forum Overview :: BioShock Infinite
 
Complexity isn't inherently good by Vested Id 05/17/2015, 7:01pm PDT
sadsack self-proclaimed mysterio el wrote:

Setting aside the particulars off MM's intelligence and whether or not the pieces fall together, if this is only something that emerges from analysis instead of an assessment of facts at little more than face value it is what people have been asking for in terms of more complexity, including people right here on Caltrops. I can tolerate it as a stumble on the way to effective storytelling, but if it doesn't meet criteria for you then the writers are damned if they do and damned if they don't so why should they try?

We have a popular narrative here about developers failing to do certain things. That doesn't obviate a need to meet them halfway if they bother with any of it. This may not be a case of the writing gods casting pearls before swine but these are at least mardi gras beads.


I don't know how you can criticize anybody when you write like this. No, writing a good story means connecting with the audience, on an abstract level if not a literal level. There's a lot of literal twists and turns in Infinite that are hard to follow. There's also magic portals but you're supposed to accept those as given and still assume the regular rules of time and space hold for the rest of the story so it can all be fitted together before you can feel the rush of significance.
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This is really terrible by fabio 03/13/2014, 2:24am PDT NEW
    How is the combat? Might pick it up again for more of that. NT by John Gulp 03/13/2014, 10:36am PDT NEW
        Re: How is the combat? Might pick it up again for more of that. by fabio 03/13/2014, 2:01pm PDT NEW
            Worse than that I'd say by Lurker 410942 03/13/2014, 8:36pm PDT NEW
                I always carried shotgun and carbine, sometimes swapping with hand cannon by WITTGENSTEIN 05/16/2015, 2:39pm PDT NEW
    Looking forward to it! NT by Mischief Hacker 03/13/2014, 3:04pm PDT NEW
        Me too. NT by Jerry Whorebach 03/17/2014, 1:52am PDT NEW
    Wasn't this supposed to be a satire of American nationalism? by fabio 03/14/2014, 1:57am PDT NEW
    aaaand done by fabio 03/17/2014, 1:13am PDT NEW
        Time travel isn't that bad by skip 04/01/2014, 8:07pm PDT NEW
            Re: Time travel isn't that bad by Mysterio who has played Achron 04/02/2014, 11:19am PDT NEW
        That fucking ending. by WITTGENSTEIN 05/15/2015, 11:17pm PDT NEW
            It was written by bizarro Orson Scott Card NT by fabio 05/16/2015, 12:13am PDT NEW
                Does anybody want to defend this? by WITTGENSTEIN 05/16/2015, 10:48am PDT NEW
                    What the hell! by Mischief Maker 05/16/2015, 12:31pm PDT NEW
                        "got lost in the mass of quantum bullshit" should be the game's tagline NT by fabio 05/16/2015, 1:01pm PDT NEW
                            The sad thing is Burial at Sea wold have made a better Bioshock than Bioshock by WITTGENSTEIN 05/16/2015, 1:20pm PDT NEW
                                But it's a pretty shitty continuation of Infinite by WITTGENSTEIN 05/16/2015, 5:25pm PDT NEW
                                    The original incarnation of Fitzroy was also dumb by skip 05/17/2015, 6:28am PDT NEW
                                        I didn't really like Fitzroy's character at all through any of it by WITTGENSTEIN 05/17/2015, 9:25am PDT NEW
                        I thought about that but why the No Niggers policy by WITTGENSTEIN 05/16/2015, 1:08pm PDT NEW
                            Old fashioned "one drop rule" racism didn't just apply to injuns. NT by Mischief Maker 05/16/2015, 1:59pm PDT NEW
                                Everything you say makes sense. Too bad they never put it in the FUCKING GAME NT by WITTGENSTEIN 05/16/2015, 2:27pm PDT NEW
                                    Fortinbras moment! NT by stupidity fairy 05/17/2015, 12:23am PDT NEW
                                        Yeah why would it be necessary to explain the motivations of a villain in a NT by story? 05/17/2015, 12:32am PDT NEW
                                            What's 'show, don't tell?' You'd think to apply it to cinematic-heavy games NT by if you thought at all. 05/17/2015, 10:02am PDT NEW
                                                Except it doesn't show OR tell NT by You FUCKING RETARD 05/17/2015, 10:14am PDT NEW
                                                    Then where did MM draw those conclusions from, some other unavailable universe? NT by Caps don't equal brains, Fortinbras 05/17/2015, 12:54pm PDT NEW
                                                        His ass maybe? by Worm 05/17/2015, 3:05pm PDT NEW
                                                            You've met people who live by that idea unless you're a total shut-in. NT by A Message from Caltrops Cares 05/17/2015, 3:40pm PDT NEW
                                                                What like born agains or something? by Worm 05/17/2015, 4:12pm PDT NEW
                                                                    It's about how the audience is expected to think religious people live, not abou by what you can explain. 05/17/2015, 5:09pm PDT NEW
                                                                        Somebody wrote that it's basically steampunk Mormonism with alternative dimensio NT by shit tacked on. 05/17/2015, 6:12pm PDT NEW
                                                            Bingo! by MM 05/17/2015, 3:51pm PDT NEW
                                                                There always must be a Comstock. NT by Worm 05/17/2015, 4:14pm PDT NEW
                                                            All analysis comes out of someone's ass by skip 05/17/2015, 3:58pm PDT NEW
                                                Meta: Is it worth giving Fortinbras shit if you have talk up Infinite? NT by Worm 05/17/2015, 10:21am PDT NEW
                                                    Well what else is this mysterio gonna do now that Ken Levine wound down by Irrational? 05/17/2015, 10:34am PDT NEW
                                                        Oh that's an idea, a social app that matches crazy fanboys with content creators NT by Worm 05/17/2015, 10:48am PDT NEW
                                                    True. History will be nicer to Infinite. Guaranteed it will show up on almost NT by all "best games of the 10s" lists 05/17/2015, 11:56am PDT NEW
                                                        Which is funny by Ice Cream Jonsey 05/17/2015, 12:23pm PDT NEW
                                                            Infinite sucks, I just point out a lack of insight here and there by sadsack self-proclaimed mysterio el 05/17/2015, 1:00pm PDT NEW
                                                                Re: Infinite sucks, I just point out a lack of insight here and there by WITTGENSTEIN 05/17/2015, 1:30pm PDT NEW
                                                                    How hard is it to understand? Baptism = racism duh NT by r/atheism redditor 05/17/2015, 1:42pm PDT NEW
                                                                    Yeah, we all need to read Uncle Tom's Cabin and watch Roots to think critically! NT by It's not you. It's never you. 05/17/2015, 2:06pm PDT NEW
                                                                    'all humans share MM's racial studies class he took.' What a Kodak moment. by sadsack self-proclaimed mysterio el 05/17/2015, 2:28pm PDT NEW
                                                                        I have to side with Wittgenstein by Vested Id 05/17/2015, 3:00pm PDT NEW
                                                                            There's the answer to all attempts at quality writing, then. by sadsack self-proclaimed mysterio el 05/17/2015, 3:11pm PDT NEW
                                                                                Look seriously... by MM 05/17/2015, 4:33pm PDT NEW
                                                                                    That's grand. How did the wiki writers, who are stupid, also get there? by Your analysis is not unique. 05/17/2015, 4:52pm PDT NEW
                                                                                        You know what? You convinced me. Bioshock's story is great. by MM 05/17/2015, 6:27pm PDT NEW
                                                                                            109 pages with cover! by All-caps trigger warning 05/17/2015, 6:57pm PDT NEW
                                                                                                Right. The attempted storytelling can't be separated from the rest of the game. by cap-sensitive tumblerite 05/17/2015, 10:33pm PDT NEW
                                                                                Complexity isn't inherently good by Vested Id 05/17/2015, 7:01pm PDT NEW
                                                                                    They connected to their chosen audience just fine but that's beside the point. by sadsack self-proclaimed mysterio el 05/17/2015, 10:42pm PDT NEW
                                                                                        If story ambition alone is praiseworthy, Final Fantasy XIII is Citizen Kane. NT by MM 05/18/2015, 5:54am PDT NEW
                                                                                            We should check by asking Wittgenstein if he got confused by any part of the NT by dumb story. 05/18/2015, 6:40am PDT NEW
                                                                                            Narrative is as worthy of improvement as action. Claims to the contrary aren't by good for games. 05/18/2015, 10:34am PDT NEW
                                                                                                The advantage of being a Mysterio is you can walk away from a losing argument. by MM 05/18/2015, 4:29pm PDT NEW
                                                                                                    What do you want from me, photo ID and an address? Typical shyster. by Mysterio 05/18/2015, 5:11pm PDT NEW
                                                                                                        Turns out Mysterio was pulling an ~elaborate troll~ on us all along! by WITTGENSTEIN 05/18/2015, 5:39pm PDT NEW
                                                                                                            even screechy mouthbreathers know increasing likelihood of replies ain't trollan by sadsack self-proclaimed mysterio el 05/18/2015, 8:18pm PDT NEW
                                                                                                        Why talk about another game? This has provided the most forum activity in months by skip 05/18/2015, 6:55pm PDT NEW
                                                                                                            Maybe ludonarrative sacrifice or drift, like SW:BFII's tacked on space battles. NT by Clint Hocking 05/18/2015, 8:24pm PDT NEW
                                                                                                                Feels like skip is describing several different things. But yes. by sadsack self-proclaimed mysterio el 05/18/2015, 8:49pm PDT NEW
                                                                                                                    Re: Feels like skip is describing several different things. But yes. by Ice Cream Jonsey 05/19/2015, 10:38am PDT NEW
                                                                                                                        Lack of ambition was not one of Infinite's faults by WITTGENSTEIN 05/19/2015, 2:23pm PDT NEW
                                                                                                                            One thing I'll never, ever get by Ice Cream Jonsey 05/19/2015, 3:24pm PDT NEW
                                                                                                                        I wouldn't play Cage games if I thought vision didn't matter by skip 05/19/2015, 6:15pm PDT NEW
                                                                                                        Re: What do you want from me, photo ID and an address? Typical shyster. by Daniel Berkhart 05/19/2015, 3:59pm PDT NEW
                                                                                                    This has the be #cousinits NT by fabio 05/18/2015, 7:46pm PDT NEW
                                                                                                        Virtual misogyny is fine, it can spark introspection that stops real misogyny. by sadsack self-proclaimed mysterio el 05/18/2015, 8:16pm PDT NEW
                                                                                                        #cousinits writes with brevity by Daniel Berkhart 05/19/2015, 4:19pm PDT NEW
                                                                                                    I'd like to officially disagree with your anti-mysterio sentiments, who cares? by Worm 05/19/2015, 11:51am PDT NEW
                                                                                                        Go get some therapy already Worm NT by MYSTERIOOOOO 05/19/2015, 12:44pm PDT NEW
                                                                                                        Standard Worm playbook: Feign disinterest, call all parties fags, participate NT by intensely 05/19/2015, 5:21pm PDT NEW
                                                                                        Re: They connected to their chosen audience just fine but that's beside the poi by Vested Id 05/18/2015, 2:04pm PDT NEW
                                                                                            all those words and you still call me a cocksucker by Mysterio 05/18/2015, 2:28pm PDT NEW
                                                                                                Re: all those words and you still call me a cocksucker by Vested Id 05/18/2015, 3:37pm PDT NEW
                                                                                                    The response to lionization remains NT by No, not really 05/18/2015, 3:46pm PDT NEW
                                                                                                        NT NT by thank god 05/18/2015, 4:10pm PDT NEW
                                                                                                    They deserve to be seen as middling when it comes to narrative development inste NT by of being demonized, yes. Special, n 05/18/2015, 4:59pm PDT NEW
                                                            Re: Which is funny by all "best games of the 10s" lists 05/17/2015, 1:17pm PDT NEW
                                                                It sold so well that the studio closed? NT by fabio 05/17/2015, 3:41pm PDT NEW
                                                                    6 million copies in a year isn't GTA V. But it's not exactly Braid or indie game NT by level sales either. 05/17/2015, 5:52pm PDT NEW
                                                                Great post - thanks! by Ice Cream Jonsey 05/17/2015, 6:25pm PDT NEW
                                                            Infinite is better cause by Vested Id 05/17/2015, 2:09pm PDT NEW
                                                                He who pleases the fanfiction writers will gain immortality. NT by skip 05/17/2015, 3:41pm PDT NEW
                                                            I don't even get why it's being embraced by SJWs and journos by fabio 05/17/2015, 3:57pm PDT NEW
                                                                Nah. You and SJW's agree here. Video game opinions make for strange bedfellows by skip 05/17/2015, 4:17pm PDT NEW
                                                                I want Fabio to do videos about gamer feminism done right. I'd watch them. by serial malcontent 05/17/2015, 4:20pm PDT NEW
                                                            I'd say THIS is the ultimate takedown of Bioshock Infinite by MM 05/17/2015, 4:46pm PDT NEW
                                                        You called it. by Mysterio 03/26/2024, 12:32pm PDT NEW
                                        Don't ruin the conversation. NT by Mysterio Lollerson 05/17/2015, 9:47am PDT NEW
                                            fag NT by fagNT 05/17/2015, 12:46pm PDT NEW
                    Re: Does anybody want to defend this? by fabio 05/17/2015, 11:55am PDT NEW
    Man with excellent accent reviews every dumb flaw in Bioshock Infinite by Last 04/02/2014, 7:57am PDT NEW
 
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