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by Tansin A. Darcos (TDARCOS) 12/21/2012, 3:46am PST |
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Prior to the U.S. Supreme Court finally stating, in obvious terms, that the Second Amendment is a right of individuals (Heller v. District of Columbia), and that this right is applicable to the states through the 14th Amendment (McDonald v. City of Chicago), there was the Miller case back in the 1930s.
In United States v. Miller, the Supreme Court was asked to test the constitutionality of the National Firearms Act (NFA), a federal law imposing a $200 transfer tax on certain weapons including machine guns and sawed-off shotguns.
The NFA was passed in response to the Saturday Night Massacre, where some of Al Capone's men, dressed as Chicago Police, murdered seven men at the C&C Cartage Company, a warehouse used for bootlegging and owned by Bugs Moran, one of Capone's competitors. (Moran just barely missed being a victim, one of Capone's spotters mistook one of the other people arriving there as Moran. Moran showed up later, saw the fake police cars, figured the place was being raided, and left, saving his life.)
Miller was indicted for posessing a sawed-off shotgun that did not have an NFA tax stamp. Miller's indictment was overturned by the trial court, which ruled the National Firearms Act violated the Second Amendment. The Supreme Court agreed to hear the appeal of case, but Miller died before arguments could be heard. As a result, only the government's side was heard. The Supreme Court ruled that if a weapon did not have a legitimate military use by an organized militia the weapon is not subject to protection under the Second Amendment, and remanded the case back to the trial court. Which meant nothing since Miller's corpse was in no condition to be retried.
For decades, both proponents and opponents of the right to keep and bear arms ("RKBA") have cited Miller to support their arguments. The RKBA crowd argued the Second Amendment protects the right of individuals to keep and bear arms. The anti-RKBA crowd argued that the Second Amendment refers to the right of the states to have their own militia, and is a collective right, not a right of individuals.
The anti-RKBA crowd never reached two conclusions: if the Second is only a collective right, then the Supreme Court should have either not taken the case or decided that Miller had no right to have a weapon because Miller was not a state. They also seemed to ignore the fact that in every other case where the term "the people" is used in the Constitution (the First, Fourth, Ninth and Tenth Amendments), it has been held to mean everyone within the United States as individuals.
Had someone been there to argue Miller's side, they could have pointed out that short-barrel and sawed-off shotguns have had lots of use as military weapons, including during World War I when they were called Trench Guns, we could have saved 70 years of misunderstandings over what the Second Amendment really meant.
So, fast-forward seventy years, and the Supreme Court finally clarified what it had said in Miller, that the Second Amendment is a right of individuals, it is not a collective right.
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Nice try, faggots, but we're gonna wait until 100 kids get killed before NT by considering any new gun laws. 12/14/2012, 11:16am PST 
Re: Nice try, faggots, but we're gonna wait until 100 kids get killed before by Mysterio 12/14/2012, 11:55am PST
Is the above post mostly really crazy? NT by Or is it just me? 12/14/2012, 12:09pm PST
No, just a convoluted way of saying let's not try anything different NT by intellectualized laziness 12/14/2012, 12:15pm PST
What points do you disagree with? NT by Mysterio 12/14/2012, 1:04pm PST
Re: What points do you disagree with? by CRAZY ASSESSMENT 12/14/2012, 4:06pm PST
Re: What points do you disagree with? by Mysterio 12/14/2012, 6:14pm PST
I don't want to agree... NT by But I do? 12/14/2012, 8:43pm PST
Re: What points do you disagree with? by CRAZY ASSESSMENT 12/15/2012, 4:19am PST
SPICE WITHDRAWAL IS ALWAYS FATAL NT by Emperor Shaddam IV 12/17/2012, 1:34pm PST
Re: What points do you disagree with? by Mysterio 12/18/2012, 7:11pm PST
When cocaine is legal again we can finally return to original Coca-Cola recipe! NT by Legal cocaine won't end society. 12/19/2012, 6:44pm PST
Re: What points do you disagree with? by Mysterio 12/18/2012, 7:15pm PST
Definitely completely crazy. NT by motherfuckerfoodeater 12/14/2012, 1:08pm PST
Re: Is the above post mostly really crazy? by blackwater 05/05/2013, 8:51pm PDT
Re: Nice try, faggots, but we're gonna wait until 100 kids get killed before by Tansin A. Darcos (TDARCOS) 12/15/2012, 10:58am PST
Which business regulations are keeping you out of work? NT by No pistols, no carry, no exceptions 12/18/2012, 3:09am PST
Hey buddy, you can't talk about gun control until they bury the dead! by Worm 12/14/2012, 12:58pm PST
*decompose NT by Worm 12/14/2012, 1:05pm PST
DECOMPOSE! by D'Compose 12/14/2012, 5:50pm PST
Ergo, the best way for there to never be a gun control debate is to... NT by KEEP SHOOTING 12/14/2012, 3:53pm PST
Fascinating commentary, Rachel Maddow NT by WITTGENSTEIN 12/14/2012, 8:34pm PST
If murder is easy we're all safe, since you just kill the other guy first (lol) NT by Worm 12/14/2012, 9:06pm PST
Increased gun ownership would help stop this. Imagine if Nancy Lanza had a gun NT by to defend herself from her son. 12/15/2012, 3:39am PST
If only those kindergarteners were armed, this tragedy could have been averted! by Mischief Box Office Multiplier 12/15/2012, 6:00am PST
Seen any mass killings at gun shows, police stations, National Guard armories? by Tansin A. Darcos (TDARCOS) 12/15/2012, 11:32am PST
The one guy who aprehended the Gifford shooter nearly shot the wrong guy. by Worm 12/15/2012, 12:00pm PST
There have been no mass killings in any bakery or deli. Know why? No you don't. NT by FORT HOOD YOU MORON 12/15/2012, 2:26pm PST
THE BEAR PATROL IS WORKING! NT by Tansin A. Darcos (fucking idiot) 12/15/2012, 2:37pm PST
Why no mass killings in Switzerland? by Tansin A. Darcos (TDARCOS) 12/15/2012, 11:50am PST
Well sure compulsory military service is much more realistic than gun control. by Worm 12/15/2012, 12:04pm PST
Every liberal in the US would love to have the Swiss laws and regulations by No pistols, no carry, no exceptions 12/15/2012, 2:23pm PST
That is not the point I am making about Switzerland by Tansin A. Darcos (TDARCOS) 12/21/2012, 2:38am PST
Does anywhere else in the civilized world have gun laws like the USA? by Worm 12/21/2012, 10:28am PST
Key word is well trained by like most people here aren't 12/17/2012, 7:43pm PST
AND HELLO, NO CARRY PERMITS AT ALL. SOCIALIST NIGHTMARE. NT by No pistols, no carry, no exceptions 12/18/2012, 3:07am PST
Re: Key word is well trained by Tansin A. Darcos (TDARCOS) 12/21/2012, 3:13am PST
I am shocked and appalled at what I'm reading here. by Jerry Whorebach 12/21/2012, 8:02pm PST
Re: I am shocked and appalled at what I'm reading here. by Tansin A. Darcos (TDARCOS) 01/05/2013, 2:28am PST
The slaves are in a state of panic. Quick, somebody fuck with the constitution! NT by Roop 12/18/2012, 4:42am PST
You can't own an LMG or Howtizer, so I'm pretty sure that 2nd ammendment is NT by "shot" to shit 12/18/2012, 11:06am PST
The "Miller" case was generally misread by Tansin A. Darcos (TDARCOS) 12/21/2012, 3:46am PST
I don't know where you got the Miller cause out of my stupid one liner. by Worm 12/21/2012, 10:35am PST
*case, jesus fucking christ NT by Worm 12/21/2012, 10:35am PST
Miller is an argument over use of weapons in an organized militia by Tansin A. Darcos (TDARCOS) 12/21/2012, 2:33pm PST
I am totally getting me some artillery. NT by Where's the closest school? 12/21/2012, 8:31pm PST
Re: Nice try, faggots, but we're gonna wait until 100 kids get killed before by Souffle of Pain 12/19/2012, 10:13am PST
How long would it be until the first frustrated teacher blows away a student? by Worm 12/19/2012, 10:40am PST
Re: How long would it be until the first frustrated teacher blows away a stud by laudablestudentbj 12/19/2012, 11:18am PST
Uh, that's a definite no-no by Commander Tansin A. Darcos 05/04/2013, 8:11am PDT
Ha! fucked ya again, paul. you make my job too easy NT by Asperger's 05/04/2013, 2:23pm PDT
TDARCOS - NRA speechwriter? NT by WITTGENSTEIN 12/21/2012, 8:36pm PST
Dude causes a panic by parading a loaded AR-15 through a grocery store by Mischief Maker 02/13/2013, 8:12am PST
Re: Dude causes a panic by parading a loaded AR-15 through a grocery store by Mysterio 02/13/2013, 9:21am PST
An armed society is a polite society by fabio 03/13/2013, 10:32am PDT
And you all sneered when I said the NRA was just protecting corporate interests! NT by Mischief Maker 03/13/2013, 10:42am PDT
The Walnart shooter was stupid by Tansin A. Darcos (TDARCOS) 03/13/2013, 3:29pm PDT
So the moral is gun owners should lie to police to get away with playing cowboy by fabio 03/13/2013, 8:17pm PDT
Well, let's see, which is better, walk home or walk off in handcuffs? NT by Tansin A. Darcos (TDARCOS) 03/15/2013, 7:18am PDT
How 'bout not getting caught in a lie and provoking the prosecutor? by Mischief Maker 03/15/2013, 7:34am PDT
How about saying nothing at all, which is always allowed by Tansin A. Darcos (TDARCOS) 03/16/2013, 1:34am PDT
Exactly. Better to commit a crime and escape punishment than face jail. NT by HANDS IN THE AIR THIS IS A STICKUP 03/15/2013, 7:37am PDT
Trick question! Walking is for suckers. NT by Jerry Whorebach 03/15/2013, 7:51am PDT
Re: The Walnart shooter was stupid by Bonjourno's crying wife. 03/15/2013, 10:20pm PDT
The problem is that the shoplifter was unarmed, so he couldn't defend himself. by SOLUTION: MORE GUNS 03/15/2013, 10:22pm PDT
I swear pit bull owners dont defend their beloved pets with the passion of gun o NT by Mischief Maker 03/15/2013, 10:43pm PDT
What, you don't believe in the One Bite Rule either? Jeez, man. by WITTGENSTEIN 03/16/2013, 10:53am PDT
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